In this episode, Michelle Frechette and Corey Maass reflect on their experiences at WordCamp US, discussing marketing strategies, product development, and the significance of open graph images for online representation. They share anecdotes from the conference, including interactions with attendees and the challenges of presenting. The conversation delves into personal branding, promotional swag, and the importance of effective image generation for social media. They also explore using AI for content creation and strategize for upcoming Black Friday sales. The episode emphasizes the importance of persistence, effective communication, and balancing professional and personal commitments.
Top Takeaways:
- Black Friday Planning: Michelle and Corey are focusing on creating a strategy for a Black Friday sale. This includes discussing potential discounts, such as testing lower pricing or offering a limited lifetime deal to attract more customers. The goal is to use Black Friday as an opportunity to experiment with pricing and boost sales.
- Product Positioning and Pain Point Clarity: There’s a recognition that OMGIMG addresses a pain point many users don’t realize they have. The challenge is to effectively communicate the value of the tool—how it can save time and effort—even though it’s not seen as a core necessity like security or SEO plugins.
- Steady Progress and Commitment: Michelle and Corey both emphasize a long-term commitment to the project, even if the progress has felt gradual. You acknowledge that building momentum takes time, and it’s important to avoid self-criticism while continuing to push forward.
- Marketing Efforts and Automation: There’s a desire to step up the marketing efforts, including improving the website, running more ads, automating marketing, and exploring new strategies, such as using creative content like songs or humorous posts on social media to draw attention.
- Balanced Expectations and Persistence: Corey reflected on not being overly attached to the immediate success of projects, aiming instead to adopt a more measured approach by consistently pushing the product forward without seeing it as all-or-nothing. The goal is to build the flywheel, recognizing that it will take time for sales and growth to self-perpetuate.
Mentioned In The Show:
- WP Accessibility Day
- Equalize Digital
- WordPress
- WordCampUS
- Automattic
- ChatGPT
- Dall-E
- Stellar WP
- Green Geeks
- Yoast
- Claude
- Email Octopus
- Canva
- Photoshop
- Setapp
- TypingMind
- Bartender
- CleanshotX
- The Repository
- Appsumo
- Social Link Pages
- WP Builds
- Mark Westergaard
- WS Forms
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🐦 You can follow Post Status and our guests on Twitter:
- Corey Maass
- Michelle Frechette (Director of Community Relations, Post Status)
- Olivia Bisset (Intern, Post Status)
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Transcript:
Michelle Frechette 00:00:04 Welcome back. It’s been a couple of weeks because of all the things travel, WordCampUS.
Corey Maass 00:00:10 All the things, all.
Michelle Frechette 00:00:11 The things. but we are back and we are here to talk about marketing. OMGIMG oh my gosh, I just saw the screenshot you sent me. Yeah, I’m having computer issues today too, so I was doing a live stream. I’m struggling over where it’s like what’s the live? What a live stream today for WP Accessibility Day, which is next week. And I had Amber Hines and Steve. Oh forgive me Steve, I don’t realize they have stopped my head from Equalize Digital. They are Amber is the lead organizer and they’re both with Equalize Digital platinum sponsor. My house cleaners were here today too.So they closed my office door so that they could, you know, not be interrupting all the things that are going on today. They closed one cat in and one cat out.
Corey Maass 00:01:11 Oh, boy.
Michelle Frechette 00:01:12 The cat went. And then they left. The cat that was out non-stop meowing.
Michelle Frechette 00:01:16 The cat that was in trying desperately to get my attention to leave. She walked all over my laptop keyboard, which disconnected my audio. And then when I reached over to get her off, she jumped. Knocked. I have Legos everywhere on my desk right now. It’s just like..
Corey Maass: As one does.
MIchelle Frechette: Everything is everywhere. And I’m just like, for crying out loud. But how are you? I’m going to post in our channels over here that we’re live. If people are interested in watching, how are you doing?
Corey Maass 00:01:47 I’m. I’m this good.
Michelle Frechette 00:01:53 Oh.Wait. I couldn’t see you because I’m in the doing other things. Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes. You have a dozen of them, I think. Right. Are there a dozen of them?
Corey Maass 00:02:03 There are, but these are. These are the three that are in rotation. Okay.
Michelle Frechette 00:02:11 NIce. Well, you you can give them away. You can hide them all over your house. You can annoy your wife with them.
Corey Maass 00:02:21 I’m. I’m mostly scared that dogs will eat them. So they are.
Michelle Frechette: Yeah.
Corey Maass: Squirreled away, no pun intended. Is that a pun? That’s not a pun, but a reference. Reference? No reference intended. No reference way. Yeah.
Michelle Frechette 00:02:36 Too funny, too funny. Well, it’s been a while. And yet, we’ve done things.
Corey Maass 00:02:43 Well, yeah. So we we actually saw each other in person, which was lovely. We did that was and.
Michelle Frechette 00:02:49 We did and it was lovely. And your.
Corey Maass 00:02:49 And actually your.
Michelle Frechette 00:02:51 Jacket that just like practically sings.
Corey Maass 00:02:54 Exactly. Yeah. So so many for anybody who was not at WordCamp US. I wore a clown jacket basically. And that outrageous OMGIMG jacket. Some interesting things. it. I don’t, I don’t know whether it it didn’t it obviously didn’t hurt the brand. I don’t think it would result in any sales. It worked wonders for me basically going like this, and getting people’s attention and, like, people were walking 100 yards from across the big convention center just to come up to me to say, your jacket is amazing.
Corey Maass 00:03:40 and, and then people have been asking if they could have one? Buy one?
Michelle Frechette 00:03:44 And it is a one of a kind. They call that Ooaks.
Corey Maass 00:03:48 Right? Oh, nice. I haven’t heard that before.
Michelle Frechette 00:03:54 O-O-A-K.
Corey Maass 00:03:56 But. So, making me think about, I mean, I, I’ve always been taking swag to another level back in the day, you know this. So I’m still dabble in music, but, like, back in the way back in the day, I actually did, like, live electronic, performances and stuff and, early, early 2000. So I wore a white iridescent jumpsuit like an astronaut and then eventually actually put, what they call L-wire, like early days of LED lighting in it. And so, like, had this light up jumpsuit, like, I’ve always been all about the, the crazy clothes and stuff. So you can’t use I just saw, right where things were not going to talk about today, but in all the stuff that’s being talked about, we’re learning a lot about the trademark.
Corey Maass 00:04:53 And so, WordPress trademark can only be like swag can only be made by Automattic, and, and is run by, by folks from Automattic if you use WordPress and then so it’s like if I were to go to a WordCamp US and sell swag, that was WordPress adjacent, but at no point mentioned WordPress, like, I probably there’s vendor licensing or things like that. But if I was like selling T-shirts out of a backpack. But anyway, all this is, is coming out of numerous conversations because people are like, you know, you should think about like either personal branding or, or selling some sort of crazy swag or I know you want to brainstorm with me. Come on.
Michelle Frechette 00:05:43 Oh, I’ve got I’ve got ideas. I’ve got it. So first. But first that jacket. Pull. Pull it up on your phone. Do something. Share it on a screen. People have to see this jacket if they haven’t seen it. Right. So you remember, like the old meme of, like some a guy in a trench coat, he’s got like, 5 million watches, like, hey, lady, wanna buy a watch.
Michelle Frechette 00:06:02 Yes. Yep. So, like, you open your OMGIMG jacket, there’s just more OMGIMG jackets. It’s like OMGIMG jacket inception and you’re like hey lady, I want to buy a really brightly colored coat.
Corey Maass 00:06:15 Exactly. All right, I’m sharing. I’m sharing a picture.
Michelle Frechette 00:06:18 Okay. Oh yes you are. Okay, so this is the look at your face is priceless. I want to say I might have actually taken this picture.
Corey Maass 00:06:25 I think I think you did like.
Michelle Frechette 00:06:27 But I can’t. And I, you know, I delete a whole bunch of stuff after because I’ve like thousands of photos of my phone. So I apologize if I hurt your feelings that I might have deleted.
Corey Maass: No, no,of course not.
Michelle Frechette: But I, I updated my iOS and I can’t find where my deleted photos are, so I can’t even confirm that I was the person who took this photo. But I was there, and I may have been the person that took this photo, but I also have another idea.
Corey Maass 00:06:50 Okay, hit me.
Michelle Frechette 00:06:51 Flat Corey. Do you remember? Do you remember Flat Stanley?
Corey Maass 00:06:56 Yes.
Michelle Frechette 00:06:58 So we are an image plugin. We should make a picture on our website like a. What’s the word? I want a a digitized version of that photo, but one smiling. I don’t know, just saying. And and we make a printable page that is flat, Cory. And you take it with you, and you take photos of it, and you tag us everywhere.
Corey Maass 00:07:24 I love it.
Michelle Frechette 00:07:25 I’m just saying, I think it could be good.
Corey Maass 00:07:28 Oh, no. Okay. That. Photos from Howard.
Michelle Frechette 00:07:31 Okay. Okay. I saw you. Okay. That’s why I could not remember exactly where it was all. Yes, Howard, you can have all the credit for that. That slightly menacing photo of Corey.
Corey Maass 00:07:43 I just I look pensive, I’m. I’m deep in a conversation, you know?
Michelle Frechette 00:07:47 Okay. Menacing. Perhaps not menacing. Okay. I couldn’t think of a better word. It’s. I’ve had a day.
Michelle Frechette 00:07:54 I will just say that I have been non-stop meetings and live streams and recordings and everything all day. So I’m not responsible for the words that come out of my mouth. However.
Corey Maass 00:08:06 Opinions are my own.
Michelle Frechette 00:08:07 Or not. I wrote down Flat Stanley, so I’d remember later that we went to do Flat Corey, because I think that could be fun.
Corey Maass 00:08:17 Um yeah. So where are we?
Michelle Frechette 00:08:19 I don’t know. But I love Marcus. Marcus isn’t. Marcus is watching. Marcus thank you for being our, like, our live viewer. I know there’s others. There’s a couple other people watching right now. You can post in the comments, just to say hello or to ask any questions as we go by. But it’s always nice to be able to say things like, hi, Marcus. So there you go. You gave me a list of things to discuss today.
Corey Maass 00:08:41 Yes. Well, so wait, there was. Oh, but so I think we’re jumping ahead. I had, I had IPA as number five instead of number one, but but one.
Corey Maass 00:08:51 So yeah, since we’re talking about WordCamp, we had wound up having meetings with people.
Michelle Frechette 00:09:01 We did.
Corey Maass 00:09:01 Which kind of blew my mind like the. And I think we could talk about this all day.
Michelle Frechette: Yeah, sure.
Corey Maass: But, Well, I’d, I’d rather not. There’s other things to talk about, but.
Michelle Frechette 00:09:15 I just thought you could technically agreeing to the talking all day part, and then you, like, added more. And I was like, oh, bugger. Anyway. Yes.
Corey Maass 00:09:25 It’s. I think I’ve said it before. I certainly said it. While we were talking to people about it of like from my perspective right now, there’s something here. I don’t know what it looks like. And so we’re starting with the directory and, and doing, we’re starting to set up the co-marketing the first draft of an exercise of co-marketing type stuff. But it was being at WordCamp US. It was great having this other thing to talk about, being IPA, and it’s interesting whose eye it caught and, and some of the even above 10,000 foot thinking that people have been doing around it, which is just which is flattering.
Corey Maass 00:10:22 Like not you know what I mean? Like, it’s flattering to the idea. It’s it’s encouraging. It’s validating that there’s something, something to all this.
Michelle Frechette 00:10:33 There’s there’s some meat in there. My favorite part, though is, is one of those meetings, the I was sitting at a table. The people that wanted to talk to us arrived before you had a chance. Like, literally ten minutes before you were supposed to even be there. So no fault of your own. And the first thing they said to me was, you know, IPA really makes me think of beer. I’m like, yes, that is the point. And they made me laugh a little, like, oh, we we never thought of that.
Corey Maass 00:11:03 Oh, so that’s what I wanted to say about the jacket was as as outrageous as the jacket was. It was actually too subtle to like. So it it’s a clown jacket. Right. But the the lettering is, is ginormous, right. And so people you don’t at a glance, you don’t unless you know our branding, you don’t immediately go, that’s the OMGIMG logo zoomed way in essentially.
Michelle Frechette: Right, right.
Corey Maass 00:11:34 And so I had at least a few people go like, oh, that’s you know what a great jacket. What a great way to draw attention to yourself. Duh duh dah dah. You know, and then and then go, oh wait, it spells OMGIMG like they it it almost was too subtle. It was. That was a fun fact.
Michelle Frechette 00:11:57 It dawns on you after a moment jacket like, oh, I get it. Yeah. So that’s cool.
Corey Maass 00:12:04 Anyway, that was kind of cool.
Michelle Frechette 00:12:06 yeah.
Corey Maass 00:12:07 So all right, going down the list, I did manage to get I sent you a screenshot of the new build a build a Bear. make an image screen,
Michelle Frechette 00:12:24 I’m anxious to play with it later.
Corey Maass 00:12:26 Looks looks very handsome. Has a much more handsome, much more stylized, branded, has all of the features built into one thing. And then I was able to pretty readily replicate it sideways. So I’m almost done with. So this is, again where all of the thinking and learning and growing that we’ve done pretty much this year is people care a lot less about being pixel perfect with images and care a lot more about ideally the the end result is they literally don’t think about it.
Corey Maass 00:13:09 And image, especially in open graph image is just made, which is a little I it, it makes me nervous because like images, image generation can go very wrong. And we’re not talking about, you know, ChatGPT generating or Dall-E generating inappropriate images, but we’re talking about like one of the things that we emphasize, oh, I should talk about my talk to, the image talk. But like one of the things that I so I’ve now done this image talk for Stellar WP. I don’t know if you’ve heard of them? They did a really cool online conference.
Michelle Frechette: Sounds familiar.
Corey Maass: Green Geeks, the hosting company, had me on to do the talk, and then I gave the talk first at this really awesome Meetup, in Buffalo? Syracuse? Binghamton?
Michelle Frechette 00:14:02 Don’t you dare.
Corey Maass 00:14:04 Endicott?
Michelle Frechette 00:14:06 Yeah. We’re the third largest city. Third largest city in New York. Rochester.
Corey Maass 00:14:10 New York City. Rochester. Rochester. Rochester. The Meetup, you were kind enough to have me. And that that was great, because that kind of kicked, kicked off me doing this talk.
Corey Maass 00:14:22 and so now I’ve done it four times. And so it’s like you do a talk a few times and you hone it. And I was relating it to my mom, who was a teacher for 30 years, where I’m like, it’s like a it’s like a lesson. And so as a professor, you might give the, the talk the same presentation about, you know, such and such a battle, or a rules of grammar or something over and over again. Every year and every year, you’re going to hone it and hone it and hone it based on feedback and whatnot. But so one of the key concepts that you helped me kind of pull out of that talk is thinking about open graph images as this is how you are represented online. And and so in that spirit, I am still baby stepping forward to where people can generate an open graph image without essentially pre-approving an open graph image, because that is how you are represented online. And so if that image is broken or looks bad, it’s my fault.
Corey Maass 00:15:26 Quote unquote. It’s the plugins fault that generated a bad image. That is what then represents you. And because as we’ve talked about, open graph images are often this kind of thing over there. It’s third party talking to fourth party about you. You may not know how you’re being represented. And so then again, it’s sort of our fault. Not really, but, it’s the result of, of bad whatever image generation that you are misrepresented and, and so I’m trying to be very intentional or very protective of, of that situation. Because the next step beyond like it’s one thing to write a blog post and, and have a template not generate a great image. It’s another thing I’ve talked about, like I have a client who’s got 13,000 posts, none of which have open graph images. At some point we’re going to click a button. We’re going to start generating thousands of images. And so the likelihood that that some some one of them and depending on how the template set up that at least some of them go horribly wrong.
Corey Maass 00:16:41 If a title is way too big and it goes off the image or something, you know where the font needs to be smaller, you know, it gets higher and higher anyway. So, so that’s kind of what we’re working towards. But all that to say, like what people really want is an image that’s just generated. And so, yeah, so this is the new screen for looking at the post list. And it’s going to and there’s a, there’s a column that you can disable, but you can see the open graph image of every one of these of every one of your posts. If it doesn’t have one click a button, choose a template and generate one right from that screen so you can walk through them one at a time. There is also click a button, click a button, and then it generates all of them for all of them. Which again is that sort of end result. But taking also taking that generate a single generate an image for a single post from within. Right now, the classic editor.
Corey Maass 00:17:39 There is an implementation for Gutenberg, but I haven’t updated that. But this next big update is going to have all three of those instances updated and more importantly, look the same for the sake of consistency and and good UI and all that kind of stuff.
Michelle Frechette 00:17:55 What I like about it is it’s and and I, I’m going to brag for a second because I love the title or the tagline that I came up with for our, our advertising series was that I used to I mean, we’re talking back in the day, right when I first started using WordPress, I never knew which image was going to show up on social media, or if an image is going to show up on social media, and you could set a featured image, and most of the time it would pull it, but not necessarily. And then you can use things like Yoast and try to tell it that that’s what it’s going to be. And and usually that still works, right? If you run it through and not always on the first time, though, sometimes you have to like run it through what we have now in the footer, which is that, that tool that we have.
Michelle Frechette 00:18:39 But with the open graph, it it’s just that is the image that’s going to show up. And so, you know, I think we came up with what never play image roulette again. Like what’s gonna what’s gonna show up when I post it to Twitter, you know, or what’s going to show up when I put it on, on LinkedIn or wherever. And so, and to me, that was the understanding, the difference between what open graph was versus just setting a featured image. So yeah. No. That’s great. The work you’re doing is awesome. I wish I was a developer sometime so I could be like, oh, I’ll do that part. But yeah, that’s not going to happen because not my strength. I’d have to go to some
Corey Maass: Good feedback.
Michelle Frechette: Yes, I am good at the feedback part.
Corey Maass 00:19:21 You have to ChatGPT like the rest of us, you can write code like the rest of us now.
Michelle Frechette 00:19:25 Yeah, but you still have to understand what you’re trying to code first.
Corey Maass 00:19:30 Okay, that’s true.
Michelle Frechette 00:19:32 It’s only as good as the prompt.
Corey Maass 00:19:37 But yeah. So that’s, that’s the direction the product’s taking. And was thankfully congruent with feedback, continued feedback. Like, as I was pitching to people at WordCamp US, they’re like, great jacket. What are you talking about? And so, you know, did did the pitch, and the it’s still, it’s still frustratingly but but appropriately like not a problem that people realize they have. So that’s like ideal. It not not not the, not the situation you ever really want to be in. But, as we talked today, there’s a like, we’re seeing new products come out in the space. So other people are at least thinking about this problem. And, and then with the, the again, the pivot of the focus of the product. I think soon you and I will spend a lot of time working on updating the website to focus more on. Here is a problem that you don’t have to think about.
Michelle Frechette 00:20:46 Yeah.
Michelle Frechette 00:20:46 Where we can define the problem in a better way. So people understand why this is an important thing for them to be using.
Corey Maass 00:20:55 Right. Sorry I’m getting urgent messages from my family about kayaks.
Michelle Frechette 00:21:02 Oh, that is urgent. You never know what what is important. One moment to the next. But, yeah, I also, want to take a couple of minutes and just ask. How did your talk go at WordCamp US?
Corey Maass 00:21:18 It went great. It went great. I was giving a first time talk. Definitely took away from my WordCamp experience because I had to spend more time preparing the talk than standing around in my fabulous jacket, my Technicolor dreamcoat. Talking with people, which is the point. And so I, I was disappointed with how it shook out that way. But the but the talk went well. It was well received. And and and fun, you know, and and and a neat story and I think it’ll make a great video like I actually I’ve, I’ve never other than to get feedback or to, to see myself speak and then go, okay, I should I should talk slower kind of thing.
Corey Maass 00:22:16 I’ve never watched any of my videos because I’m like, I’m just moving forward. Like I give them to give them the the value is in the conversations or the networking or getting in front of people. And I, I think that there’s a lot of value in that, especially at the smaller WordCamps or Meetups. At WordCamp US like it’s an honor to speak at such a big conference, but it’s to me, it has become such a business conference that I don’t know that I’m going to see, like, this is a crummy thing to say, like return on and, you know, ROI, right? But, like, I don’t I don’t think I will apply to speak at a WordCamp US again because unless, unless one you you have a talk like if I was doing my image talk, it would have been a whole different situation.
Michelle Frechette: Sure.
Corey Maass: I have that one down. I can review my slides in 20 minutes and then get give up, get up and give a great presentation. Whereas this one was like I needed to spend a lot of time, and it also was not I wasn’t pushing my product.
Corey Maass 00:23:18 So I think if you could get up and give a talk that represents you and your business so that it ends up being a marketing opportunity, then that would be great. So now that I say all that out loud, I think I’m just going to be more intentional about what I pitch to present in the future. And and I’m sorry. I’m not anything.
Michelle Frechette 00:23:37 I’m sorry I wasn’t in your talk. I actually wanted to be there and lost track of time, if I’m being completely honest.
Corey Maass 00:23:42 I heard that from a lot of people, but it’s. But I am pleased to say that most of the time I would say like of my talks, I’m like, wait for the blog post or you can, you know, you can get a quick summary and and you could with this talk too. But this talk was a story, and I think I was 75, 78% successful in like telling it as a story. If nothing else, like, I nailed the punchlines that I wanted to nail and I feel like I did more or less create the story arc that I had hoped to create.
Corey Maass 00:24:23 And so I encourage I actually, for the first time, encourage people to go watch the talk because it’s a it’s such a fun story and and and heartwarming and, and all that kind of stuff. So.
Michelle Frechette 00:24:34 And you brought snacks.
Corey Maass 00:24:36 And I brought snacks.
Michelle Frechette 00:24:38 I did not bring snacks to my talk, but.
Corey Maass 00:24:40 And that’s why nobody is talking about yours. I’m just kidding.
Michelle Frechette 00:24:46 How mean, I can take wait. Okay. Bye. I hold the power.
Corey Maass 00:24:57 That’s right.
Corey Maass 00:24:59 Nobody’s talking about my talk either, but nobody’s talking about any of the talks. Let’s be honest. But that’s all we’re going to say about that.
Michelle Frechette 00:25:05 That is our,
Corey Maass 00:25:06 So. So, thank you for asking. I, I yeah, I my my talk went well. You said yours did as well.
Michelle Frechette 00:25:14 It did, it did. I was very happy. I had my favorite moment when I’m giving a talk is I hit a slide or two and all the phones come up to take a picture of that slide, which to me says you’re saying something people want to remember later, even though I’ve given them the link to the slides.
Michelle Frechette 00:25:31 I’ve done all those things because for most of us, you have to take a picture of it if you’re going to remember at all. Right. And so and I people like messaged me even afterwards. Marcus in the comments. oh. Oh, Marcus. Anyway, I’m not reading that one out loud, but
Corey Maass: But but well gone.
Michelle Frechtte: I was like, what does that mean? Oh, I get it. yeah, I have I’ve had people message me afterwards and actually say I’ve, I’ve listened to you for a really long time. I’ve followed you. I’ve heard a lot of what you put in that talk, but to see it all together was really helpful. So. Yeah, that’s that was cool. Very cool.
Corey Maass 00:26:12 And, for what? I also did not watch yours.
Michelle Frechette 00:26:15 So I don’t feel that bad for missing yours either.
Corey Maass 00:26:18 Nor should you. But what you you shared with me some of the the slides, the content and whatnot. And, I love how much of you you put into that content.
Michelle Frechette 00:26:31 Yeah, well, that’s. And that’s all I know how to do.
Corey Maass 00:26:35 Well, but it’s like. Like my my image talk is very valuable to many people because that information, again, has not been brought together. Or some people learn best like I don’t I don’t go to educational talks. Not because I’m not I’m sure they’re not wonderful, but I don’t learn that way. Like sitting there for 45 minutes. My ADHD will not let me absorb that information I need. You know, I need ten bullet points or less, and then I move on. So I’m happy to present it, but and I try to, you know, put as much personality and entertainment. My dad jokes and stuff into it as I can, but it’s not. But it’s not my, these are facts and I am summarizing facts in a logical way. Da da da. Whereas a lot of what you shared with me, some of its facts, a lot of it should be facts, but often isn’t, sadly. And then and then some of it is educated opinion where people should in fact listen to your opinions.
Corey Maass 00:27:43 And and that’s what I mean. Like, I think that’s that’s hugely valuable. Yeah. A differentiator, you know.
Michelle Frechette 00:27:49 Yeah. And I and I talked to somebody beforehand who asked what the talk was going to be about, what some of my main points were. They didn’t come to the session, which was fine. and I told them, like, I don’t say thank you and I don’t say, I’m sorry if there aren’t things that should be applied. And they disagreed with me and I’m like, that’s great, because I’m not making you do anything with your business. It’s just my opinion. And a lot of people also have agreed with it. But maybe it’s not right for you and your brand. And that’s all good. So.
Corey Maass 00:28:18 Well and and take that as a step higher, right? So many people. And this is what I loved early on. And not that I’m not still learning, but so many concepts that I learned 20 years ago as I got into small business, SaaS, entrepreneurship.
Corey Maass 00:28:39 I had never thought about language in that way. Like, what does it mean to say thank you? When is it appropriate? You know, what are you saying when you say thank you? Dot dot dot. Right. And and I mean, that was one of the things that I found amazing. Not that I was some expert on old school business, but like the fact that there was all this new thinking because we had these new opportunities of running businesses from our computers anywhere in the world, even 20 years ago was revolutionary. And and so it was I was reading voraciously, reading business books, because there were so many new ideas, I was I’m contradicting myself, but I was reassured that these were new ideas. Right? So it it was interesting to absorb it anyway. So you share that kind of stuff and I love it.
Michelle Frechette 00:29:30 Yeah. That’s fun. I like that our. Well and if we only both thought the same way about everything and share things in the same way, this would be very boring and working on this project would not work very well.
Michelle Frechette 00:29:40 So it’s good that we have similar thought processes, but we have yin and yang approach to things such sometimes, which I.
Corey Maass 00:29:47 That’s true. Think is really good. Yeah, that’s pretty cool stuff. so speaking of my image talk, so I have like I said, I’ve given it four times. I it was recorded twice. Unfortunately, to date, the best I gave it was actually at the little the little meetup that could in, in Keene, but I didn’t I forgot to hit record on my phone, which I try to do. But I took the transcript from the two that were recorded through those into Claude said generate from these transcripts generate a multi-part drip campaign as lead generation. And this is, this is one of those like I’m blown away, like we’re all blown away. We’re starting to take it for granted. But I love that I’m still, you know, once in a while can be like oh my god. So, I will be sending it. It wrote a ten part, with one first one being welcome and the last one being, you know, thank you.
Corey Maass 00:30:57 And, and, but it, it took it and so I’m, I’m skimming it and I’ve, you know, making a few corrections here and there, and I’m going to pass it along to you.
Michelle Frechette 00:31:07 I’ll probably take thank you right out of it.
Corey Maass 00:31:10 Which is fine, you know, and that’s.
Michelle Frechette 00:31:13 Depending on how it’s applied, depending on how it’s applied.
Corey Maass 00:31:15 Absolutely. And yeah, I love that. but things that blew me away were like, specifically so so I, I just said, take this content and write a drip campaign with a welcome. And it did. But it it added number ten that said thank you plus special bonus. And then said, as a thank you for reading all this, I hope you found this series valuable. As a token of my appreciation, I put together a special bonus for you, a free checklist with a link to it just said in brackets link to checklist PDF. I didn’t ask for that. It just was like, here’s here, I’m going to take this to the next level.
Corey Maass 00:31:54 So then of course my next prompt was please generate the checklist PDF, which it promptly did.
Michelle Frechette 00:32:01 And was it good?
Corey Maass 00:32:03 Yeah I mean I mean it’s it’s much of the same content and some of it again like I will swap in and out or because there’s products that I’d rather promote or not mention at all or what have you. But anyway, so as a lead gen, yeah, I’ll pass this over to you probably this week, and then I’m setting it up and, right now we use Email Octopus and so I’ll be adding that in there. So and then we’ll start prompting people on the website to learn more about images broadly.
Michelle Frechette 00:32:36 I love that. I think that’s a great idea. And I’m all about images, as you can tell. I think that’s great. I, I love the.
Corey Maass 00:32:43 And then your supposed to go like this.
Michelle Frechette 00:32:44 I know I almost did.
Corey Maass 00:32:45 Like, to all the images behind you.
Michelle Frechette 00:32:50 To all my photography. And I hadn’t thought of a drip campaign, which I’m a little embarrassed. I didn’t come to me, but that’s a great idea.
Michelle Frechette 00:32:54 Especially taking it out of things you’ve already said and not having to recreate it. Right from scratch. It makes perfect sense. And I need to learn ChatGPT better or or just AI and leverage it better. And I don’t know if it’s because I’m an old school, like, I used to not want to use Canva because I know, you know Photoshop, and now I’m like, why do I have to think of everything when Canva has a lot of it, like right there. Idea generation, that kind of thing. So I do need to lean in more to the whole AI thing. So yeah.
Corey Maass 00:33:25 I’m trying to I use, are you familiar with Aet App? You’re on a mac, right?
Michelle Frechette 00:33:31 I am, but I do not know that one.
Corey Maass 00:33:33 so Setapp.com. I think?
Michelle Frechette: Writing it down.
Corey Maass: Yeah. And I will message it to you. Yeah. So I was very skeptical at first. Sort of. So it’s it’s a ten bucks a month gets you all of these apps.
Corey Maass 00:33:53 Instead of buying all of the apps individually and originally, I you can you can put Mark. That comment from Marcus. Corey’s jacket at WordCamp US was a drip campaign the way the teens used to use the word drip. That’s I will. I will own that happily. although I don’t know if he’s meaning.
Michelle Frechette 00:34:21 Don’t tell ChatGPT to open the docking bay doors. Okay, Hal.
Corey Maass 00:34:26 So I don’t I don’t know if if, Marcus is calling me a drip or if he’s saying that I was, like, dripping in fashion, but either way, I’ll take it.
Michelle Frechette 00:34:36 Yes, I was going to say your interpretation. Marcus, don’t say anything more. Adam Weeks says Marcus has the comment of the way of the day, which is true. Absolutely true. Oh, drop us in your outfit. Like, wait, wait. Fashion.
Corey Maass 00:34:51 There we go. Love it.
Michelle Frechette 00:34:54 The comments are coming in so fast. I try to unclick one and it clicks the next one. I love it. Engagement is great.
Corey Maass 00:35:02 But, Yeah. So. So I had bought a bunch of different apps and, and they were in and then one by one found that, that they were included in Set App. And so when it came time, like I just kept renewing because honestly, like I want to make sure the revenue goes to the developers and stuff like that, but I’m like, they’re they’re choosing to be part of this package. And, and it finally got to the point where I was like, oh, right. There’s just so many of these apps that I’m paying for individually. It does financially make sense to just pay. And it’s ten bucks a month, but I think it’s, you know, 60 per year or 70 per year. So you get a little discount. And then it’s also great because there’s no excuse not to use apps that are built into it because they’re free or you’re you’ve already paid for them. And so there’s like, there’s one that is a transcript app. So that’s what I used to take the transcripts from my, my recordings, my, my presentation to then get the transcription.
Corey Maass 00:36:08 And then there’s another app that I bought when it first came out called Typing Mind. That is an AI client. and I still don’t really get I don’t, I don’t understand all of the value like like the IDE that I use, I think I’m, you know, I’m using 20% of it. But what I do like is that you I had at one point I had subscribed to ChatGPT, so I was paying 20 bucks a month and I was like, I gotta use it. I gotta use it to get $20 in value. And then discovered that you can generate an API key, so then you’re only pay for what you use. And so with TypingMind, I have plugged in an API key for OpenAI or for ChatGPT and a and an API key for Claude. And then you can select which one. And because sometimes they brown out and sometimes they don’t give you the answer you want. And so you can jump back and forth. And then there’s a bunch of, there’s, there’s 101 other neat functions in built in that again, I don’t understand, but having a client and and having dedicated threads that I can come back to.
Corey Maass 00:37:23 And so I’m like, this one’s about PHP, this one’s about JavaScript, this one’s about WordPress, this one’s marketing ideas. This one’s. And so it’s like I can continue those conversations, you know, or stay focused I don’t like I no longer have to say, okay, I’m writing PHP today. Help me write this code. I jump into the PHP one and just start typing, and it knows that the context for this conversation is PHP.
Michelle Frechtte: That’s really wild.
Michelle Frechette 00:37:54 Marcus says he used a Setapp for Bartender, CleanshotX, Luminar and Paw. Now, I don’t know what any of those are.
Corey Maass 00:38:03 So so Bartender bartender. So I because I’m running 101 apps. I have 101 icons in the top right of my Mac. Bartender makes them three dots.
Michelle Frechette: Oh, nice.
Corey Maass: And you click on it and it expands, but you click it and it goes through. And so it doesn’t go all the way across your screen and it doesn’t look messy. And and then Cleanshot is I think the still think that it is the far and away the best screenshot app I use it that one I use at least no exaggeration.
Corey Maass 00:38:37 A dozen times a day. Every every image I sent you like minutes before I showed you, me checking my mic level, you know, even me going, did you take this photo? The photo that I shared, I screenshotted just the square and sent it to you. You know, I’m scrolling back. There was the newsletter that came out today.
Michelle Frechette: Gotcha.
Corey Maass: The repository newsletter. Everybody should subscribe. It’s another great one. With an with an arrow. So annotation all that super easy with Cleanshot. and then I don’t know what the other ones are. Luminar is probably like a.
Michelle Frechette 00:39:16 He got it for Cleanshot. And then the others, after subbing to Setapp.
Corey Maass 00:39:21 I had paid for Cleanshot for years.
Michelle Frechette 00:39:25 I, I just know the keystroke to do a screenshot, and that’s all I do. Yeah, but.
Corey Maass 00:39:31 This lets you annotate. So I draw text, I draw arrows because I’m dealing with clients who are not techy. So sending them a screenshot is not enough.
Michelle Frechette 00:39:39 Like they know I usually open it in like Photoshop and then have to like draw arrows and stuff. So I’m like, you’re just wasting my you’re not wasting. You’re spending my money now, Corey. Because, you know, I’m going to be looking at all these later. Oh, not only Corey but Marcus because now Marcus is like is.
Corey Maass 00:39:54 I get the I get the affiliate thing not you Marcus.
Michelle Frechette: Thanks guys.
Michelle Frechette 00:39:58 Not using anybody’s affiliate like just so there. Just kidding.
Corey Maass 00:40:01 And then there’s a bunch of there’s a bunch of other like tech stuff. There’s a git client. There’s Oh, but they just came out with a really nice it. I haven’t tried it yet, but a screenshot or. Excuse me, a screen recording app. But where you can put yourself in the little bubble, which I’ve been wanting to do for videos. Anyway, there’s apparently it’s turning into a sales call for Setapp, but, I feel like TypingMinds, is included in that. That was my point along to have the an AI client.
Michelle Frechette: I love that.
Corey Maass 00:40:33 Where are we at 19 minutes and three more items on the list.
Michelle Frechette 00:40:41 Now the next one is the the the planning for our website. That’s definitely something that’s coming. We talked about that a little bit and then. tied.
Corey Maass 00:40:48 Tied into the next thing which is so number four plan for Black Friday. So yes. So just broadly speaking we’ve got less than two months. I want to do another big Black Friday sale. I want to at some point you and I have a dedicated conversation about pricing. because I’m also starting to think that we might be priced a little high. And so we might be able to use Black Friday as sort of a test case of if people if people will buy it for $60 instead of $99, then maybe we just roll with that pricing.
Michelle Frechette 00:41:30 I’m also wondering, I’ve been watching Paid Memberships Pro and they are doing a one time limited, lifetime deal. And I’ve never done a limited. I’ve never done a lifetime deal with anything. I’ve always just heard, oh, don’t do them, don’t do them.
Michelle Frechette 00:41:47 And I’m wondering if we’re new enough and scrappy enough that we should experiment with that through Black Friday as well. Come up with what a lifetime deal value might be and then offer like a limited number of them. Like, you know, somehow, I.
Corey Maass 00:42:02 Mean, we we offer one. We offer one now, but it’s full price.
Michelle Frechette: Yeah.
Corey Maass: So. Yeah, if it was and and I, I want to say half of what we did at our launch for Black Friday a year ago was lifetime. I actually keep forgetting. I want to go write it down. I want to go look at how many were actually activated. With Social Link Pages, my previous product. I actually launched on Appsumo as marketplace. So not Appsumo where you get the big push, but they have this marketplace that you can kind of put yourself in, and so you don’t get nearly the attention, but you still get some attention, or you have the benefit of their of everybody who’s, who’s browsing things there. And I got, I don’t know, 80 sales or something.
Corey Maass 00:42:58 And t literally Literally I think three or less actually ever used it. And so it was like, it’s free. It’s so cynical, but it’s free money.
Michelle Frechette 00:43:09 You haven’t had to support any of it.
Corey Maass 00:43:12 Well, there you go. So, so, yeah, I’ve, I’ve also been sort of thinking, playing with that idea of, like, doing a launch which would get us a, a chunk of money, like, we’ve had a little bit to play with or like, as I did a talk and got a couple of hundred bucks, then I’d apply that to ads kind of thing. But it would be great to have a bigger pile of money to to yeah, do something with run ads, sponsor a WordCamp. I mean, I have no idea, but then we’d at least have some options.
Michelle Frechette 00:43:42 Yeah. And whatever we come up with as far as Black Friday goes, I have an entire list of places to submit those deals to, including Post Status, which I’m putting up on the screen now.
Michelle Frechette 00:43:52 Anybody who’s going to be running a deal for Black Friday, can submit their Black Friday, Cyber Monday deal now. The page is actually live already. Not a lot on it yet, but you know, we did it, so I didn’t want to wait till last minute. I.
Corey Maass 00:44:06 Was yeah, I was reminded, as I suspect you were, because Nathan posted his in WP Builds on Monday. and I was like, oh, right. Time to get started.
Michelle Frechette 00:44:17 Nope. I actually had this in place three weeks ago, so there you go.
Corey Maass: Good for you.
Michelle Frechette: Maybe, maybe, I reminded him. I don’t know, probably. I’ll also be honest and say that I was on the cloud based Prepathon, and because it was going to be about preparing for Black Friday, Cyber Monday and the holidays, I made sure that the Post Status page was ready and willing and able to do all the things so that I could be promoting that at the same time.
Corey Maass: Nice.
Michelle Frechette 00:44:47 I don’t always think ahead, but when I do, I’m on the money.
Corey Maass 00:44:53 Head, shoulders, knees and toes. But yeah. So I’m. I’m starting to think about. I’ve been I’ve been floundering for at least the first half of this year. I think I’ve talked a little bit about it. Of direction, of motivation, of all sorts of things. And so I’m, but I’m, and I’m coincidentally I am. Mode of how do I want to say this? WordCamp US helped me zoom out and go. This might not be, like I still think that OMG should be installed on every website next to an SEO plugin. But people people have don’t either don’t have the problem which isn’t true but don’t know they have the problem. And and also if they’re going to put it next to an SEO plugin that they’re already spending $100 for. So all of these things are making me go, okay, this might not have the legs that I originally hoped that it did.
Michelle Frechette 00:46:09 Well, one of the things we talked about when I first came on was we have to figure out how to explain to people the pain point they didn’t know they had.
Michelle Frechette 00:46:18 Right. And we talked and I can’t remember. I think there was a bicycle in there. So did we talk about bicycles or something? I can’t remember now, but, where there’s there’s things that are nice to have and the things that are necessary to have. And you need security. You need, you know, a form plugin. This. Could you do this for yourself? Yeah, but what a pain in the rear end to try to do this for yourself. Right? So this is one of those things that it solves a pain point that isn’t necessarily your site won’t function without it. You won’t be able to make sales without it. Right. But it still is something that can save you so much time. And time is money. So it’s a good investment. So it’s it’s finding a way to say that. Explain what the pain point is, explain why it’s necessary and then make the sales that way. And that’s been a little bit the struggle, right, to try to figure out how to say that succinctly.
Michelle Frechette 00:47:14 And it also is like we have to get it to the point where it’s easy to show people how to use it and how to just like, boom, use it and go and have fun. And, maybe, I don’t know, fun, but I like building websites, but, you know, and then also, the kind of thing where let’s make it so that it’s really easy to do, but the website also has to get caught up with that as well. So we’re just juggling a few things that have to come into play into the perfect storm, if you will, and be able to move forward from there. We’re getting there.
Corey Maass 00:47:49 And I making sure that the dogs are about to explode.
Michelle Frechette 00:47:53 It’s that time of day.
Corey Maass 00:47:54 And so yeah. So it was so WordCamp US helped me zoom out and kind of go, okay, so this is, you know, just a product. And so what is you know, let’s hurry up and put a bow around the new, essentially the new focused product, which again, more emphasis on automation, image generation, that kind of thing.
Corey Maass 00:48:19 And then updating because we’ve been, I’ve been the bottleneck because I’ve been floundering. And so the product hasn’t been updated. So then, so then the website hasn’t been updated and it rolls downhill. So coming soon will be the new version of the product. And which doesn’t really bottleneck other than taking screenshots because I need to like finish the screens. But but so I want to start working on shifting the focus of the website and, and all of that. Ideally, I think we do in the next seven weeks or whatever, whenever Black Friday is.
Michelle Frechette: I think so too.
Corey Maass: And so at that point, it’s it’s all just kind of rolling forward where we, we feel like everything is, feature complete or, you know, you never want to say done, but it’s like, you know, here is here is the, the complete thing that does everything we say it does. And and then honestly, I want to focus more on the website and more on marketing and, and that kind of thing.
Corey Maass 00:49:24 But thinking of it. Yeah, it’s like I keep wanting to say just a product, but it’s like, you know, putting, putting my arms around it and then pushing it rather than like all of this pie not again. I’m saying the wrong words because it’s like, I don’t want to be. What do you diminutive? No. Like, I don’t want to not say that everything that we do is good and amazing, but like, it’s real easy to think big, big, big. And it’s like, okay, but we need to just get some freaking sales. Yeah, yeah, push this product, get some sales, you know, get customers, talk to customers, that kind of stuff.
Michelle Frechette 00:50:03 We should. And I haven’t looked at yet to see if, those ads we’ve been I started running. Have, generated any traffic yet either. and that magazine I don’t know. So we could talk about that next week. Maybe too.
Corey Maass 00:50:15 Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle Frechette 00:50:17 Analytics.
Corey Maass 00:50:19 Yeah. We got I mean, we got some clicks, which led to some traffic.
Corey Maass 00:50:23 Not a lot.
Michelle Frechette 00:50:25 And we could, we could post those 180 characters, with a link to those landing pages through our socials as well, and see if anybody finds the humor and enjoys them enough to share them and maybe make a purchase? You never know.
Corey Maass 00:50:44 Yep. So and get yeah, I want to yeah. All that kind of stuff. Like once again look at automating more marketing. The low level stuff. And I can do things like.
Michelle Frechette: Yeah
Right, right. Exactly. It’s the, it’s the words on screens everywhere we possibly can with a backlink. Somebody else messaged me, I have it in my inbox. Everything. This is the other thing about my talk at WordCamp US was like everything got put on hold for two weeks leading up to it because I was scrambling. I had to focus on my talk. And so that was.
Michelle Frechette: Same.
Corey Maass 00:51:21 Poor time management for myself or a bad side effect of making those choices. But I have, I have.
Michelle Frechette 00:51:31 A, I have this full time job and a part time job at Post Status that just like in events.
Michelle Frechette 00:51:36 But anyway, yeah, my excuses. I have a whole list of excuses.
Corey Maass 00:51:40 Oh me too. I mean, client work and yeah, dogs to feed and walk and yeah.
Michelle Frechette 00:51:45 Did we come up with it earlier this year? Didn’t I come up with a song about OMGIMG? Wasn’t there a song like that I did through that AI generation?
Corey Maass: You did, didn’t you?
Michelle Frechette: Yeah, I don’t know where it is. I’ll have to go back and look for it because that would be fun to put on on socials too. Like, oh, here, learn about this.
Corey Maass 00:52:07 Yep and I have like one of the things that got put on hold is I have an email that said, oh, they also asked me to do the same presentation for another online conference, but I couldn’t. I don’t remember why. I’m busy that weekend kind of thing. But they came back and said, well, what do you think about taking part of it and making a blog post? And so I’m going to take part of the transcription or the drip campaign and have Chat generated blog post.Maybe I shouldn’t say this out loud.
Michelle Frechette 00:52:45 That’s fine.
Corey Maass 00:52:46 It’ll still obviously I’m still going to proofread it and edit it and all that kind of stuff, but, you know, but there’s there’s another backlink to OMG, and so.
Michelle Frechette 00:52:56 I’m happy to read through it too.
Corey Maass 00:52:57 Thank you. But start of sort of. Yeah. Getting out of my own way, I is I think part of what I want to say like, yeah, it’s easy to think bigger and bigger and bigger in part because, like, I have something I’ve struggled with over the years is my identity gets tied, tied up into these projects that I start. And I think that passion is good and and commitment is good. And, you know, being true to myself, like, these projects represent me and all that kind of stuff, but like, it becomes too consuming. And then I’m also too disappointed when they don’t immediately go through the roof kind of thing. So, so just kind of stepping back and going like, just do the work and see where you land.
Michelle Frechette 00:53:47 I what you just said reminded me of. I’m going to paraphrase it because I do not remember it exactly. But like Michelangelo saw the David in the marble, but he didn’t just snap his fingers like it took. He had to carve away at all that marble to get to the David. And it’s not an immediate gratitude. It’s a the fingers appear and then the the crown of the head appears, and it’s it’s a while before you have an entire statue that you’re happy to see. Right. And that is also true of marketing. And building a product like this is it’s not nothing’s very few things are overnight sensations. And the things that we think are overnight sensations seldom actually are. They’re the the work of years of people studying and working to get to where they were suddenly discovered at that point. But nothing seems to it’s like somebody didn’t just wake up and decide they were going to sing an aria on Broadway, you know, or in I just mixed my my musical theater, but sing, sing an aria at the at the Met Opera or whatever, you know, so these things take time and we have to remind ourselves that.
Michelle Frechette 00:54:51 And and I feel like sometimes I feel guilty that I’ve been working with you on it since whatever it was, February, March. And like, I’ve not helped you move the needle very much, but it’s it’s been a process and we’ve been working on together. And I’m not going to beat you up, and I hope you’re not going to beat me up. And certainly I hope we don’t beat up ourselves. So we just keep pushing forward and move it up.
Corey Maass 00:55:11 Right. Exactly. Yeah. And talking to, like Mark Westergaard was a perfect example where I, he WS Form only came on my radar like last year. And, and so I was chatting with him and he’s like, oh yeah, I’ve been, you know, I’ve been working on this for, seven years. And it’s like the flywheel, the flywheel has to start turning and then it and then it, you know, it self perpetuates and, and that kind of thing. And, and now.
Michelle Frechette 00:55:41 You just have to keep it oiled and all that stuff.
Corey Maass 00:55:42 Exactly. Yeah. And keep and keep chipping away at it. That’s something else that I’m watching for myself is like, there are so many apps that I see getting popular that have seen get popular over the last 20 years and, and, and that I’ve built, that I built and built well and abandoned or like lost interest in or I guess that’s the same thing. But and so it’s the like I think that’s part of that’s, that’s the other thing that I’m, I’m trying to say to myself, like one of my takeaways is like, not that I’m not always in this for the long haul, but like going, this is this is one of the things that I’m going to keep chipping away at. But it doesn’t have to be the whole thing so that when I lose interest, it’s all or nothing. That’s what I’m trying to say. Like, I tend to treat things as all or nothing. And this is like, okay, this is a product. Let’s get it to where it’s it’s great unto itself.
Corey Maass 00:56:39 And we, you know, and and we push it a little bit often, you know, and see how it grows over the next few years. Not necessarily like, oh, this has to go like this or else, you know, I mean, I sell it and move on to the next, next thing.
Michelle Frechette 00:56:54 Our families aren’t vacationing in Bermuda together in December, but maybe someday as we build it. I’ve never been to Bermuda.
Corey Maass 00:57:03 The Black Friday. Could be the.
Michelle Frechette 00:57:06 Could be the pivot point. You know, you never know. You never know. I love it. Okay, well, do we talk about all the things?
Corey Maass 00:57:14 Let’s call it.
Michelle Frechette 00:57:15 We’re good. So if you’re still listening, I have a date tonight, and I have got to get ready and meet this person. In about an hour and a half.
Corey Maass: That’s exciting.
Michelle Frechette: So. So if we cut this off at, you know, a few minutes early so I can, you know, brush my hair and brush my teeth. All’s good. I’ll let you know tomorrow how it goes.
Corey Maass 00:57:34 Awesome. We’ll have so much fun.
Michelle Frechette 00:57:36 Thank you.
Corey Maass 00:57:37 And, Yeah, we’ll catch up soon.
Michelle Frechette 00:57:39 We’ll see everybody next week.
Corey Maass 00:57:41 Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo.
