Marketing a WordPress Product Live: Session 23

Transcript ↓

In this episode, Michelle Frechette and Corey Maass delve into their experiences with product marketing for a WordPress plugin focused on open graph images. They highlight the significance of customer feedback, better onboarding processes, and innovative marketing strategies inspired by Spotify’s year-end wrap-up feature. The discussion is peppered with personal anecdotes and humor, creating a light-hearted yet informative atmosphere. They explore ideas like using AI for targeted landing pages, conducting visitor interviews, and improving their website design to better reflect their brand. The episode concludes with a sense of camaraderie and optimism for their ongoing projects.

Top Takeaways:

• Focus on the Problem and Solution: Corey emphasized the importance of clearly defining the problem OMGIMG solves. This includes addressing specific pain points, like the “image roulette” problem, where inconsistent images affect branding and engagement. Focusing on the problem in copy helps ensure users immediately see OMGIMG’s relevance to their needs.
• Strategic Use of AI as a Creative Partner: Corey is using AI as a tool for creating, organizing, and refining content. This iterative approach—from generating headlines to drafting entire plugins—allows him to quickly put ideas on paper, then tweak them. Michelle also mentioned wanting to lean more on AI, which could further help streamline content creation and brainstorming.
• Customer-Specific Landing Pages: Corey mentioned creating landing pages targeted at specific customer types, like bloggers, to highlight relevant features and value propositions. This strategy makes it easier for users to see exactly how OMGIMG fits their needs and helps make the messaging more personalized and effective.
• Interactive Feedback with Visitor Interviews: The idea of using visitor interviews and live feedback sessions with WordPress community members (like Cameron and Marcus) was discussed as a way to gather insights on the product in real-time. This feedback could be essential for fine-tuning both the product and its messaging.

Mentioned In The Show:

• Mark Westguard
• This Week In WordPress
• Nathan Wrigley
• IPA WP
• Justin Welsch
• Saturday Solopreneur 
• Otter AI 
• Alan Fuller
• Fullworks Plugins
• Set App
• Beaver builder
• Claude AI
• Chris Lema
• Cameron Jones

🐦 You can follow Post Status and our guests on Twitter:

• Corey Maass
• Michelle Frechette (Director of Community Relations, Post Status)
• Olivia Bisset (Intern, Post Status)

The Post Status  podcast is geared toward WordPress professionals, with interviews, news, and deep analysis. 📝

Browse our archives, and don’t forget to subscribe via iTunes, Google Podcasts, YouTube, Stitcher, Simplecast, or RSS. 🎧

Transcript:
Michelle Frechette 00:00:01  Oh. We’re back. You always make me laugh right before we get started. And then I. We come on every every episode I look at. I’m laughing as we get started, and it’s kind of funny. 

Corey Maass: Excellent. 

Michelle Frechette: I love it, love it, love it, love it. Hey, if you’re listening to us today, if you’re watching us, thanks for being here. You can always post a comment or a question. We love those here. I’ll actually show you the banner I made. Put them in the comments. We will answer them. I’m always responding as Post Status so you’ll see that too there. But and I have my little A texts to put in the chat because I am prepared more than usual today. So. So we do have a list of things we want to work through today. 

Corey Maass: We do. 

Michelle Frechette: And the first should be let’s admire your new mug.

Corey Maass 00:00:51  Oh well that’s I’m glad I had it here. OoOo.

Michelle Frechette 00:00:55  I like it. You need to send me a, you need to send me a link so I can order one too.

Corey Maass 00:01:02  Or one might just magically appear, I actually. So here’s the here’s the the the how do I want to unethical thing? Is, you know, like I, I, I am still human. So despite my entrepreneurial journey and sympathy for small businesses, I don’t have a lot of sympathy for big businesses and so ordered from a rather large company. And they’re on the inside. There’s a little like, imperfection. And so I wrote them and was like, you know, it’s imperfect. There’s a slight imperfection on the inside. Hint, hint.  Like implying.

Michelle Frechette 00:01:44 They should replace it.

Corey Maass 00:01:46  Free one because. So that I could immediately send it to you for free.

Michelle Frechette 00:01:52  Well, let me know if that happens. If not, I’ll order one too.

Corey Maass 00:01:55  Sure, absolutely. But it’s. Yeah, it’s slick. It was. And it’s so we we only buy these like the what do they call the bistro shape size shape. You know, and we I’d been looking at them for ages because I was just like, Mark Westguard said yesterday or showed off yesterday, like in our call was yesterday?

Corey Maass 00:02:17  It feels like years ago already.

Michelle Frechette 00:02:20  I was in another state. Completely.

Corey Maass 00:02:22  There you go. but I noticed that he, he, like, you know, pauses before he sips. 

Michelle Frechette: Yeah. 

Corey Maass: I was like, yeah, he’s doing that on purpose. Like, oh, yeah, himself. but I but yeah, just in general on our calls, like, I mean, I have my big ridiculous water bottle, which there’s no way to brand that thing.

Michelle Frechette 00:02:39  I mean, you can put a sticker on it, but. Yeah.

Corey Maass 00:02:41  Right. You know, but, like, I’m always sipping on tea, so I may as well. And, but getting getting the big, proper logo or with color, like, then they’re going to print it and it’s gonna look at it. And then I was like, oh, this is just like, so this is actually like in cut in. You know, and it’s, you know, I just a font that’s close enough and 

Michelle Frechette: Nice.

Corey Maass 00:03:03  But I had to order our, our foster dog that we wound up adopting a year ago, has been eating out of a metal dish, whereas all the other dogs have, like, dishes with their names on it. Yeah, and now that it’s winter, where, like, his tongue is going to stick to the metal bowl.

Michelle Frechette 00:03:23  Freeze. Like the kid and Toy Story or not, toy story, Christmas Story.

Corey Maass 00:03:26  Christmas Story. So I was like, so we need to we need, you know, we need a ceramic bowl. And if I’m ordering a ceramic bowl, then I’ll also order a mug because the shipping was like, yeah, it’s like the the bowl was ten bucks off. So it was only like 13, but then it was ten bucks and shipping and I’m like, if it’s the same shipping or get a mug toot, I’m just going to get a mug.

Michelle Frechette 00:03:44  To make sense.

Corey Maass 00:03:46  Oh, this is very important to the context.

Michelle Frechette 00:03:48  I do understand, though, that perhaps his tongue will only stick if he gets triple dog dared.

Corey Maass 00:03:55  Well done. Yes.

Michelle Frechette 00:03:58  Thank you. I also want to note that nobody is going to slowly go behind me on this podcast. I know there’s nobody here. It’s just me. It could. The cat could, but she’s so small you won’t see her.

Corey Maass 00:04:09  Ohso might jump down. But that’s about the excitement. Yeah.

Michelle Frechette 00:04:14  But that was fun yesterday.

Corey Maass 00:04:15  That was amazing.

Michelle Frechette 00:04:16  The W, this week in WordPress, when I get to crash behind. Well, that literally crash, crash the crash, crash the podcast.

Corey Maass 00:04:25  I would have been not funny anymore.

Michelle Frechette 00:04:26  Slow rolling, but no slow rolling my scooter behind Mark. And, Nathan’s reaction was absolutely priceless. 

Corey Maass: Yeah. Oh man.

Michelle Frechette: That’s the kind of stuff that money cannot buy.

Corey Maass 00:04:37  Yeah. Oh, man, it was so good. It was so good. And a fun and a fun conversation I had. I looked back, I think like I found invites and so I’ve, I’ve been on some podcast with Nathan at some point, I think, but I think I’d never been on Coffee Talk. And so.

Michelle Frechette 00:04:58  It wasn’t Coffee Talk.

Corey Maass 00:04:59  Or not coffee talk. Sorry. That’s you.

Michelle Frechette 00:05:02  Coffee on the.

Corey Maass 00:05:03  This Week In and but it’s it’s that format. That’s why I kept thinking Coffee Talk because it’s that sort of like, oh, we’re going to have some topics. We’ll chat or we won’t. It’s The View for WordPress. And it.

Michelle Frechette 00:05:15  It is really.

Corey Maass 00:05:18  And yeah, fun. And so I was like, okay, yeah, I definitely want to try to do that again. The waiting list is like two months long. So, you know.

Michelle Frechette 00:05:26  Well we have some openings right now, so.

Corey Maass 00:05:28  Start signing up for more of them.

Michelle Frechette 00:05:30  But come on in and on December.

Corey Maass 00:05:34  Yeah I think I might I think I might. It’s fun.

Michelle Frechette 00:05:37  So you have on the list also to talk about today I’m going to skip some of the other stuff because I want to know the two. There’s two that I really want to know before we get on the catching up on the new site design, which I know is very important.

Corey Maass 00:05:49  Yeah, yeah. Go.

Michelle Frechette 00:05:50  What is Spotify wrapped for OMGIMG?

Corey Maass 00:05:53  All right, so let me find the email like so I you know, I sign up for 101 newsletters. Because I’m actually despite being ADHD and a bit scattered like I’ve, I’ve been teching for so long that I don’t maintain inbox zero, but I maintain like inbox 20. Like I developed really good habits from GTD getting things done 100 yeras ago.

Michelle Frechette 00:06:20 I have not, I have not.

Corey Maass 00:06:23  To each their own, right? Like you know you manage it how you manage it, right? And thankfully I, I adopted this, thankfully for me, I adopted this a long time ago. But anyway, so it lets me process things really quickly. And so that enabled allows me to subscribe to 101 newsletters, which I absorb, you know, skim and delete, many a day. And so I have a lot, a lot of I’m always looking for new marketing ideas. A bunch of them are tech or new products. But then there’s also, new or marketing ideas.

Corey Maass 00:07:00  So I will share my screen. I think it shows my email address, but I don’t care. So I am going to present, share screen, window, email. One last skim. Yeah. There’s nothing I’m not giving anything away or there we go. But I’ll make it a better size. There you go.

Michelle Frechette 00:07:25  Take the branding off.

Corey Maass 00:07:26  So from. Say again?

Michelle Frechette 00:07:30  I took the branding off so we could see the whole thing.

Corey Maass 00:07:33  So Tom’s Marketing Ideas is a newsletter that I like. you know, and all of it, it’s I treat it like, I think it was Brian Eno. Did he invent the original one? But the deck of cards, that’s, you know, random input. And so I like this kind of thing too. It’s like you just never know where the next idea is going to come from and or the perfect, the right idea at the right time kind of thing. So this is another one of those, and so the very cool newsletter that has, has been sitting in my inbox because again, like inbox 20 somethings, just like I either will snooze or then wait to process.

Corey Maass 00:08:11  So this was from October 25th. So, you.

Michelle Frechette 00:08:15 Okay, not too long ago.

Corey Maass 00:08:18  But, you know, Spotify does their year in review. Spotify Wrapped, they call it. Right. And so they’ll come and like they’ll send you a report if you want it of your favorite songs this year, your favorite albums, blah blah blah. And it’s one of those that’s like, oh, this is just a neat idea. As, as he’s presenting it, like, you know, what could you do? What could you wrap air quotes, in your product to for your audience. And so they give, you know, Duolingo or Todoist. How many to do items have you done this year? That kind of.

Michelle Frechette 00:08:56  Oh yeah.

Corey Maass 00:08:57  And then if you don’t have data points, you could also do industry wrapped, you know, or there’s even funny, you know, things like that. And so it was just like, oh, this is, this is cool. Like because we every OMG image that is created, for your site and has metadata that says this is an OMG image.

Corey Maass 00:09:20  And so we could I could quickly build into the site like I can show you how many you know, OMG images you’ve generated. And then the the the other thing that I’ve been, I’ve wanted to do this for ages, and this might be the context in which I do it, depending on how quickly I can get it done in the next, I guess two months. But I’ve, I’ve long wanted a, a product or, function feature app? I think it might be a separate like I might do an external thing because it might also be a lead gen for OMG, but basically a site scraper. Or basically it would go and find all the URLs based on all the links on your site, within your site, and then based on that list of URLs, go look at, all of the open graph images and basically collect a link to all of them and create a report that, and I’m already sort of I’m due. I created this last year at WordCamp US, a little side project that does this for like the top few hundred sites on the internet to kind of track the history of open graph images.

Corey Maass 00:10:35  So I’ve already got the I only bring that up because I’ve already got the tech for it. Nice. But but so anybody. So it’s like, you know, if your website, IPA WP has, you know, you, you click a button, you let it run for a day, it won’t take a day, but like, let it take its time in the background and it’ll go find all of the public URLs and then it’ll, capture the link for the open graph image on all of those URLs. Bless you. And then hand it back to you so that, you know, either it’ll it’ll one report generate a list of pages, public facing pages that do not have an open graph image, and a list of pages that, have the same. Meaning like if you’ve inserted a default image and that’s all that’s being shown, again, you’re doing yourself a disservice, as we’ve talked about a thousand times. And then, and then some sort of presentation of like, just brute force. Here are all of the URLs with all of the images, so you can visually spot check them and see if you know that they all look good kind of thing.

Michelle Frechette 00:11:47  I like that. So is this the right time to confess that I don’t use Spotify, but I am in the 1% learners for Duolingo. But it makes me wonder if everybody is.

Corey Maass 00:11:59  That’s amazing. If everybody’s in the 1%.

Michelle Frechette 00:12:02  Yeah. That’s just what they say. Like you are doing so good.

Corey Maass 00:12:07  You are in the 1% of yourself.

Michelle Frechette 00:12:10  I mean, I have a 1400 day streak, so I guess I’m okay. 

Corey Maass 00:12:13  Wow. What languages?

Michelle Frechette 00:12:15  Espanol?

Corey Maass 00:12:17  Muy bien.

Michelle Frechette 00:12:18  Gracias.

Corey Maass 00:12:21  But. Yeah.

Michelle Frechette 00:12:23  So can we call this a multilingual podcast now? No.

Corey Maass 00:12:27  Clado.

Michelle Frechette 00:12:33  I love that. I think that’s really great.

Corey Maass 00:12:36  Yeah. So it’s just it’s, you know, again, these are, I love these things. I love these random newsletters that give you random ideas. There was another one that I was trying to find. Oh, well. And that’s the the other item on our list. Visitor interviews. I’ll show you that email too, but. But yeah.

Corey Maass 00:12:54  So it’s like, you know, whatever we can do to kind of want to add value, like we could do funny things. I actually and I didn’t, hadn’t thought of the wraps. I think if that that other little website that I have that collects public open graph images was better. It’s pretty. I need to revisit it. I think it it doesn’t, it’s got issues. but that would be interesting. Like publicly, it would be interesting to release something that says, here is the state of social images on, you know, on the most popular sites on the internet, because I don’t think anybody’s talking about that or doing that.

Michelle Frechette 00:13:32  Right.

Corey Maass 00:13:33  So it would just be kind of a, you know, I think people would go,huh. And then it might or might not get a little attention. but anyway, so that’s that. That’s something that I’m thinking about. 

Michelle Frechette:I like it. 

Corey Maass: Have a think. Have a think to yourself like I well, I do think I do think there’s context for a tool that you could any you know, anybody who buys this was the other thing that I, I read something recently about.

Corey Maass 00:13:59  So we’re redoing the home page that we’ll be discussing that too. But, somebody said in a bunch of the guides that I was reading about, like, what copy here. You know, here’s a formula for writing new copy for a landing page. And there’s of course, a hundred different formulas. But one of them that I thought was neat was, you know, in a not just a by now because it’s on sale or whatever, but by now and you’ll get 20. Excuse me. Microphone. You’ll get 20 minutes with Corey who can help you review your site or you’ll get, you know, some extra access to some tool. So if we had this tool that’s like we will do an audit of your social images when you first buy the plugin, you know. But then again, using that same tech we could generate these year end reports. It’s just it’s anything.  Be land in anybody’s inbox. So and we.

Michelle Frechette 00:14:54  Could just do it for ourselves. Like we could have a Spotify wrap type thing for this is what we do with OMGIMG.

Michelle Frechette 00:15:00  This year the study lines of code were written. This many lines of code were deprecated. This this many podcast live. We did like this. These are the places we sponsored or how many stickers we ended out. Speaking of stickers, where are we at the.

Corey Maass: Oh yeah.

Michelle Frechette: The voting like it’s almost the year end here. Who owes whom a drink? That’s what I want to know.

Corey Maass 00:15:23  This is an excellent question.

Michelle Frechette 00:15:25  And I. And do you really just have an algorithm? Every time I get a vote, you up yours too. I just want to know. Be honest.

Corey Maass 00:15:31  Yeah. The algorithm is me going in and clicking four more times, and then I’m just like, ahead of you at all times. It’s it’s called do things that don’t scale. Michelle.

Michelle Frechette 00:15:41  I know, I know, I know 

Corey Maass: It’s marketing. 

Michelle Frechete: It works.

Corey Maass 00:15:44  It’s own minimum viable product.

Michelle Frechette 00:15:48  We also have to figure out, like where’s halfway between Rochester, New York, and wherever you are in New Hampshire. I don’t even know your city.

Michelle Frechette 00:15:54  And, like, just meet up for a drink sometime when there’s no snow. The next couple months.

Corey Maass 00:15:59  We are actually tied.

Michelle Frechette 00:16:02  Are we really?

Corey Maass 00:16:03  Oh, my God, hold on share screen. That’s too funny. Like that’s real. 

Michelle Frechette 00:16:09  Oh, my gosh.

Corey Maass 00:16:11  I have not, I have not because it’s not fun to cheat you know.

Michelle Frechette 00:16:14  No, it’s not.

Corey Maass 00:16:15  Easy to cheat. And so I mean anybody else could have gone in and voted six times.

Michelle Frechette 00:16:20  Sure. Yeah. That’s funny.

Corey Maass 00:16:23  No, but that is a funny coincidence that it’s. We are sitting at 61, so we we’re just doing to by two drinks 

Michelle Frechette 00:16:31  We are going to buy each other drinks. I love it.

Corey Maass 00:16:33  Exactly.

Michelle Frechette 00:16:34  You order first, then I’m ordering something really expensive. No I’m kidding.

Corey Maass 00:16:38  I know you hate you. You’re the one that hosted, Happy Hours where Corey took advantage of the open bar. let’s just leave it at that.

Michelle Frechette 00:16:50  So it’s all good, and I didn’t. That was not out of my pocket, so.

Michelle Frechette 00:16:56  Okay, so now you have visitor interviews. That’s the next thing you have on the list. So what are you what do you mean by visitor interviews?

Corey Maass 00:17:03  Okay, so now where did that go? This, I thought was really cool. presenting, sharing the screen. Once again, this is getting habitual. So in another newsletter that I really like, Justin Welsch, does the Saturday Solopreneur. And I, we’ve all heard 100 times about interviewing clients, but I was like, oh, this might actually be a thing we could do. A woman told me about her product launch that completely flopped, but instead of declaring failure, she created a feedback loop, set up 15 minute calls with 20 people who clicked but didn’t buy. Offered to $20 gift card for honest feedback. Recorded every call and ran them through Otter AI to spot patterns. Found that 80% of potential buyers wanted blah blah blah. So I was like, you know, maybe it’s time to do this. Like, I definitely think that.

Corey Maass 00:18:03  So we are again, one of the things we’re going to talk about is we’re totally redoing our marketing site. I’m really happy with the new copy. And we are, currently working with a designer to, to come up with a design, that I’m being a little picky about because I want it to be not just a grid, but at the end of the day, like if it’s just a grid, as long as it’s handsome, fine, then. Well, the new copy is really what should matter. But I want to think about because it’s. So. There’s nothing wrong with the product, like the product needs updating. I’m working on new designs, new screens, more features, yada yada yada, but. It’s.

Michelle Frechette: I think it’s great.

Corey Maass:  And it’s hard for it’s hard. Thank you. And and everybody who uses it, not everybody but a lot of people who use it reach out to me and say, like, this is really cool and it solves the problem. And yes, I wish it did this or this.

Corey Maass 00:19:12  And I’m like, yep, that’s on the feature list. Or I’ll add that to the feature list, whatever. Like any normal product. But but generally people who are using it, I’ve not yet had anybody come back to me and been like, this doesn’t do what you said it would do. This doesn’t save me time. I want my money back.

Michelle Frechette 00:19:28  Right. But they’re also not buying in droves either. So we need to figure out where the disconnect is.

Corey Maass 00:19:33  Exactly. Right. So the issue, which I’m a I’m a product guy and I’m a developer, so all I want to do is work on building the product all day. But I have to remind myself that the, the, the problem is not the product because people who do buy the product are satisfied. They’re not buying the product. So the problem is with the marketing site and the marketing in general, which is why we’re here. but if we can.

Michelle Frechette 00:19:56  I think too there’s a little bit I, we talked about this early on.

Michelle Frechette 00:19:59  There’s a little bit with onboarding too. So I think that if you are a developer or have a developer type brain, that analytical type brain that I don’t have, it feels very, easy to just like, oh, I could figure this out. I could just go for it. But but me, who’s used a ton of ton of plugins before, struggled a little bit and you and I needed help from you to do that. So and it’s and I looked at the videos and I tried to figure it out and we’ve changed it a little bit since then too. Or rather, you have, because I don’t do any development. But, with my input, I guess I’ll say. But perhaps the onboarding, and whether that’s I help write better descriptions or whatever it is. Could be a little bit simpler, simplified as well, so that people have a better understanding. And I know that I ran into some issues that you’ve solved since then. but I’m just I’m trying to think of other things that could make it a little bit easier.

Michelle Frechette 00:20:51  But one of the things we talked about early on is that for somebody who doesn’t understand what Open Graph is, to actually bridge that gap, right? So yeah.

Corey Maass 00:21:00  And that’s and to your point, like again I you know, onboarding implies they’ve already bought the product. But it’s the same like one of the things that I am addressing with the new copy, and I think we can expound on throughout the site is a video of here’s Michelle getting started, who is not a developer. And this is and, and obviously we’ll prime the pump and make sure you’re prepared and you know, and I’ll update the onboarding again to make sure that it’s, you know, like from your feedback, I’ve already made it more clear and more easy. And again, we’re reef. We’re pivoting slightly to emphasize templating and auto generation of images, rather than Corey nerding out about all the features, because who cares that again, you know, typical developer. How cool that you can click all these buttons and everybody’s like the whole point, dude, is I don’t want to click buttons, you know? 

Michelle Frechette: Right.

Corey Maass 00:21:53  So emphasizing that. And so I think we can I’d love to make a second. There’s I want to do a new onboarding video or a new what do they call it? Explainer video. Right. But that’s benefits not features. And then but also have a, we have a section that’s like how to get started or something like that. How does it work? And then I want to actually like yeah, have it would be great to have you do those videos. Yeah. as a and be like, honestly hi I’m Michelle. Michel. Yes, I’m on the team, but I’m not a developer. This is me setting up the plugin on a new site. You know. 

Michelle Frechette 00:22:27  Yeah. Alan says I wanted to remind us, too, that, you know, watching an onboarding video is part of the sales process. So am I, even if you’ve already bought, like, am I asking for a refund or am I going forward with the product? But also, if you don’t have your onboarding explained easily, then you’re not explaining your marketing easily too. So I think they really do go hand in hand.

Corey Maass 00:22:45  Yeah, yeah. And we can. And these are these are assets. Yeah. Thanks, Alan. everybody should check out Fullwork pPugins. Made lovingly by hand by Alan.

Michelle Frechette 00:22:57  We Alan did not pay for that. So that was just a free plug.

Corey Maass 00:23:00 Leave a good call. Leave a good comment. And if I like you and you pay me, I will absolutely advocate. But this is not a paid advertising. 

Michelle Frechette: No, it is not. 

Corey Maass: Only. Only favors. And, first, first born children are used in exchange for these advertisements. Anyway. 

Michelle Frechette 00:23:21  Anyway, you really were saying. Yes.

Corey Maass 00:23:27  Yeah. And these are, these are assets we can reuse, which I think would be great. Like put it on the out, put it on the website, put it in the product.. But so going all the way back, I definitely want to I’m excited about the new copy. I’ve run it by a lot of people who are like, yes, this is world’s better and explains the site better.

Corey Maass 00:23:46  but I want to put this in our back pocket. Like, I’m going to snooze this email probably for January 1, and then we’re going to see how Black Friday goes. And I also think, like whatever sales we get from Black Friday, maybe we reach out to people, and, and say, thank you for buying, you know, why did you buy, what can you tell us what copy resonated with you? Can you tell us about the problem you were trying to solve and, and capture those words and make sure that those words are represented on the new site? And then also January 1. look at, you know, there’s been sites that I’ve, I’ve built before where we have an exit intent pop up, but instead of trying to grab you and capture the sale, it says like, hey, it looks like you’re leaving. You know, could we ask you a few questions? You know, we’re just trying to do better here, and, you know, and you get a, you get a trickle of feedback, but any feedback is better than none.

Corey Maass 00:24:43  And so see if we can find people, who ideally we don’t know and ideally are not WordPress bubble insiders like everybody I’m talking to because that’s the world I live in. You know, total stranger says no clue. I came here looking for this. You know what I mean, right?

Michelle Frechette 00:25:00  Yeah. No. For sure. Yeah. I would love to get this in the hands of, like, even if we give it away to ten bloggers, right? Just people who are not big, not insiders, just bloggers. Give them a license key and have them try it and give us honest feedback on how it works, what they could use for their like, what would what would be better onboarding, what information did we not provide that would be helpful? Do they need to open a support ticket to figure out how to do things and then, you know, have them in a month fill out a survey with some feedback for us. Are you making a note?

Corey Maass 00:25:40  Yeah, like I’m talking I’m talking about all these newsletters.

Corey Maass 00:25:44  So I’m like, pick ten of Corey’s regularly read newsletters, offer them a free copy in exchange for. Exchange for feedback. Just be like no strings attached. Just use the damn thing. Tell us what you think.

Michelle Frechette 00:26:09  I have a couple people I’d like to send it to as well whose feedback I would value. So.

Corey Maass 00:26:15  And but I’m thinking yeah there are there in addition to and not to disqualify I don’t I don’t know who you mean, but it’s like to reach out to total strangers like the others. I, I just showed you I they have no idea who I am. I’m just a subscriber. I have no idea who they are. I don’t know their background. They are product people. So maybe that’s the only qualifier. But it’s like, you know.

Michelle Frechette 00:26:39  And I know some people who are not developers or not have done 1 or 2 websites and only manage their own stuff. And those are the people I’m talking about, like somebody who would just manage their own website, maybe somebody else even built it for them, and they manage it now and just see how they interact with it.

Michelle Frechette 00:26:55  And if they even want to, they could record it and send us a recording of how they how they work through it.

Corey Maass 00:27:00  There’s a couple of now that we’re discussing all this, like there’s a couple of vlogs, channels that we regularly watch on YouTube. And so to reach out to them again, total stranger, which is what I want and be like, hey, but because I know the and I guess the reason they pop into my head is because I know they all, you know, everything’s on YouTube, but they also have maintain very smartly correctly, their own WordPress websites where you can buy swag or whatever. And then it, you know, lots of links to Patreon, but it’s like, I know they have WordPress. So here’s a plugin, you know, and so if I reached out to them, because I also have a history of donating to them so I can be like, not that they owe me anything for the donations. I mean, you know, but be like you, I am a long time fan. This is not a, you know, not a totally cold call. and we’re.

Michelle Frechette 00:27:52  Not asking for anything more than feedback. We’re not trying to sell you anything.

Corey Maass 00:27:56  Well, and and you’re likely to trust me installing this rando plugin on your website that gets millions of views.

Michelle Frechette 00:28:06  Yeah, but I would, I would give them a coupon code to have them walk through the entire process of purchase through everything. Yep. Absolutely.

Corey Maass 00:28:13  100%. So now let me see if I can get all of the things.

Michelle Frechette 00:28:22  All of the things.

Corey Maass 00:28:24  All the things. There we go. Is there a way to combine.

Michelle Frechette 00:28:30  Did I tell you I got picked for jury duty? Sorry, I know I told you, I don’t know where to put it. Oh, there it is.

Corey Maass 00:28:38  And just like that she goes to jail.

Michelle Frechette 00:28:41  I know right.

Corey Maass 00:28:44  So. Yeah. So next we can talk about the design. Why? I’m just trying to open everything in one window so I don’t have to keep jumping around.

Michelle Frechette 00:28:54  I understand.

Corey Maass 00:28:55  God damn it. Stupid, Mac.

Michelle Frechette 00:29:00  Cameron says jury duty terrifies him. Yeah. Me too. Especially since I don’t have anybody to, like, get my scooter out of the trunk for me to go in and do jury duty. So I have to call the number and find out what their accommodations are.

Corey Maass 00:29:15  Do you know how to open? I guess it’s I guess you just have to open up a window is fine. Fine. Stupid, Mac. That’s it. I’m switching to windows.

Michelle Frechette 00:29:26  No you’re not.

Corey Maass 00:29:27  Said nobody ever. Okay, so I think. Yeah, we started with, one more. We share screen, present, share screen. We’re gonna have to do this in three parts.

Michelle Frechette: Oh there goes the dog. 

Corey Maass: That’s okay. Oh, did getting close to dinnertime. The dog is confused by daylight savings, as is our as our humans.

Michelle Frechette 00:29:54  As are we all. Yes.

Corey Maass 00:29:56  Yeah. Hi, puppy. Hi. Hold on. Come here. Dog cameo, who looks very cute.

MIchelle Frechette: Yay dog!

Corey Maass 00:30:07  Looks very cute right now. He just got his haircut, so normally his name is Oso, but when he when and he looks like a snowman. But when he gets his haircut like this, we think he looks like a Beauregard.

Michelle Frechette 00:30:22  Oh, there you go. That’s his name now. 

Corey Maass 00:30:24  So this is Beauregard or Prince? yeah. Prince Beauregard, 

Michelle Frechette: Is he a bichon?  

Corey Maass: Oh, no. he is a Havanese.

Michelle Frechette 00:30:35  Oh, there you go.

Corey Maass 00:30:37  But anyway. Yeah. So, so we hired a designer, and, so this is the original. I’m. I’m. The results are fine. I’m not blown away, but, I’m appreciate that. Like, within a few days. I’ve. Lately I’ve been promoting, Set App if you’re on Mac.

Michelle Frechette 00:31:03  I still haven’t done it, so I need to pull the trigger on that.

Corey Maass 00:31:06  And, Marcus just commented, there’s no Set App for windows, so Corey isn’t going anywhere. Apparently my my fanboy, my fanboy-ism has been, shining through.

Michelle Frechette 00:31:19  Precedes you.

Corey Maass 00:31:20  Yeah. but yeah. So, so I, I won’t share, the list. If I had better prepared, I could have opened all of the the sites that I referenced, but, sent obviously a long, brief, ran it by a few people. They said yes, it was a good brief. Ask ChatGPT that said it was a good brief, and that it obviously included a long list of sites that I liked. And, one of the, you know, websites have to adhere to the grid, at least in some fashion. But I said, you know, specifically, one of the things that I’m looking for is like, we are an image company. And and as we’ve talked about many times on this podcast, like, our voice is friendly and fun and and colorful. And so I think that’s, that’s, that’s captured here. but I said, you know, anything we can do to get away from the conventional grid. And so, you know, an example like this, I like the typography, but it’s way too boxy, like that does not break the grid at all.

Corey Maass 00:32:31  It literally emphasizes the grid. But, you know, okay, we’re starting to get somewhere here where, like, you know, big blocks of color. Something interesting. Okay. Sorry. I’ve got to do it. 

Michelle Frechette 00:32:47  What font is that?

Corey Maass 00:32:50  Oh, I don’t know yet. that might be the same. we use Montserrat everywhere. Okay, so that might be the same, Bop bop bop. There’s one. I don’t I don’t dare show all of these. Open all 15 tabs. Yes.

Michelle Frechette 00:33:16  Oh, my. I’ve had a cat circling my feet since we started this podcast. I was gone for four days, and she is now like, you are not leaving me again. She’s really annoying when she won’t leave my feet alone.

Corey Maass 00:33:33  I updated, I’m just grabbing a few things here.

Michelle Frechette 00:33:39  Sure. And then. Charlotte.

Corey Maass 00:33:50  I know this is absolutely fascinating copy for everybody. That’s why,

Michelle Frechette 00:33:55  That’s why I’m showing a cat.

Corey Maass 00:33:58  Oh, where is it? There we go. Okay, so let me share a different screen.

Corey Maass 00:34:04  I think it’ll help.Share screen window. This guy. Yeah. So. So some some of the obvious. Oops. God, it’s the wrong.

Michelle Frechette 00:34:19  Feels very Mondrian.

Corey Maass 00:34:21  But yeah. So if nothing else, I’ll actually. So I’ll just grab a few things from the other. I don’t know if any of them are actually relevant. But like, it’s still grid, but, you know, playful, colorful. This guy, goes vertical grid, so it’s still grid, but at least it’s like, not product image title. And, not a I have a bunch of screenshots, but I won’t bother, But, I like, you know, the big product going off the screen, I think helps. Nice product image, like.

Michelle Frechette 00:35:06  Kind of breaks the wall.

Corey Maass 00:35:07  Because of the shadow. Yep. Beaver Builder. I actually really like their the way that they present their product. Again, it’s grid, but it feels different from every other product site. And then I love this like and this is actually animated if it’ll, you know so it pops up and it kind of walks you visually walks you through.

Corey Maass 00:35:31  And then we’re basically copying the typography from here. You know big bold colors.

Michelle Frechette 00:35:40  And our brand and our brand colors. Yeah.

Corey Maass 00:35:43  And so I think that that’s a good place. And then and then I, I have been absolutely fascinated with this. So you hit refresh and it’s random and, and I keep wanting, keep trying to figure out a way to implement this in specifically like my musician site, because I’m like, because you can be just totally creative over there. And I’m like, you know, if, if my picture was in the circle and, you know, one of the other sections was, you know, play four different tracks, you know, the big green pills were the play for different songs that I’ve produced and all the white ones down below where the mixes. But, but all mixed in with all these other funky, you know, shapes. It’s, it’s it would take a lot of design and I don’t know how it would work on mobile and da da da da, but, I keep trying to anyway, using this as a very abstract influence.

Corey Maass 00:36:41  But just so that gives some context of, of what I’m trying to do. And so then we’ll go back to our results. which again, I wish would be, but so that’s that’s where he’s getting the, You guys share the screen? 

Michelle Frechette: I’m sorry I missed that. 

Corey Maass: That’s where he’s getting the these pills, but. And so I’m like, okay, we’re we’re getting somewhere. I do also like that. Like, I to me, I don’t want to use this much space just for abstraction. But I like I like the again, it’s just a different grid. too much grid. Again I like the colors but we’re going to waste space there.

Michelle Frechette 00:37:26  So much space. Yeah.

Corey Maass 00:37:28  But I but that one jumped out at me. Make this one a little bigger. And so I’m like oh okay. So if we had you know big big colored circles that we used you know in in numerous ways. And this at least feels big and friendly and not so gridy. Gridy. Not gritty.

Corey Maass 00:37:53  And so I, so I gave him that, 

Michelle Frechette: That I don’t like that.

Corey Maass: But yeah, it’s ridiculous. But I appreciate again like, I love that over a weekend we got eight different.

Michelle Frechette 00:38:03  Yeah. Oh yeah. For sure.

Corey Maass 00:38:05  Like that’s huge. And I, and I like this too again where it’s like, okay, it’s, you know, one column.And big blocks of color, like, I wish it was a little more integrated somehow or. So you know.

Michelle Frechette 00:38:23  But it’s all good ideas. 

Corey Maass 00:38:24  Yeah and I like the depth of the shadow here. There’s some, you know it feels good a little different. and then playing with color. So then, so I, I gave feedback and said okay you know I like, I like the typography of that first one. You know, but the colors of five and eight, I think I said and then so we came back with design. So he tried to play with different layouts. I won’t even share that image because he’s like, here’s a bunch of layout ideas, but they’re terrible.

Corey Maass 00:38:55  Like he wrote, like, I don’t, I don’t like any of them.

Michelle Frechette 00:39:01  Oh, no. First, the first one is absolutely. I mean, I know they’re all conceptual, but, like, the contrast is terrible.

Corey Maass 00:39:13  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Again. So, you know, but taking an idea.

Michelle Frechette 00:39:16  Idea concept.

Corey Maass 00:39:17  Like because and honestly, that was my terrible suggestion. I was like, you know, just to be different. Like, could we punch the letters out of color instead of it just being big words or, you know, like, I just kind of trying to, like, throw out random again, Brian Eno, like, throw out random, you know, what would it what would it look like if it was viewed underwater? What would it look like if, you know, a martian made it on Tuesday, like, whatever. So I commend the the amount again. The amount of.

Michelle Frechette 00:39:48  Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Corey Maass 00:39:50  Something. Just something different.

Corey Maass 00:39:54  And and again, like the use of these shapes.

Michelle Frechette: I like that. 

Corey Maass: I think I want to get, I like that get away from, these things. Or maybe we can use like a smaller version of it. But then the big circles of color or something. But you know, but that, but that one I’m looking at this a little closer now of like it feels friendly. It feels airy. I won’t say it feels different but you know.

Michelle Frechette 00:40:21  What’s interesting is I know that those a lot of those are the colors of the, the logo. But in that giant format they don’t look like the colors of the logo. Isn’t that interesting. 

Corey Maass 00:40:33  It is. Well and and if you can see it there’s actually like the circles. 

Michelle Frechette: I do. 

Corey Maass: So there’s a couple of different colors and we’d have to like contrast test all this for accessibility.

Michelle Frechette 00:40:43  Of course of course.

Corey Maass 00:40:43  Yeah. which, which I realized after asking I was like, yeah, we might only be able to use like the purple and blue or something.

Michelle Frechette 00:40:51  We can tweak those things. It’s all the concept we’re looking at right now for sure. Yeah.

Corey Maass 00:40:56  You know, but it’s but again, I appreciate that. Like, okay, we’re we’re getting somewhere. I actually like the layout of this. It’s it’s I don’t again. It’s it’s I think we’d waste too much space by having this kind of thing up here. but I just, I love that the nav starts, you know, two thirds or 62, 61.4 if we’re, if it’s golden ratio I haven’t checked but you know like that it only goes partway across. And like maybe we do that and just somehow move these things up a bit. But again it just it’s we’re playing with the grid and I really appreciate that.

Michelle Frechette 00:41:34  Yeah, absolutely.

Corey Maass 00:41:36  The other thing that I’m not helping this person, this designer with is, right, like he took the one product shot off of the home page initially and currently just as dropped in. Thankfully, a white block like. I also think like one of the biggest things that I’ve struggled with that we I finally created a decent graphic that is on our current homepage that I think I need to have an actual designer redo so that it looks way better than I was able to do it.

Corey Maass 00:42:10  But a illustration of essentially it’s a not an info graph, but a what do they call it, a Venn diagram. You know, arrows that point to logic, you know, logic flow kind of thing of like, images before run it through OMG images after kind of illustration. And so kind of like the Beaver Builder thing, like I think we need to have multiple multiple screens or little windows or whatever.

Michelle Frechette 00:42:38  Yeah. And, and a really nice flow. That makes sense for sure.

Corey Maass 00:42:42  You know, or or maybe this is the, there’s there’s, you know, a way to do a partial video, a short animation that kind of shows things happening. And then you click on it and you can see a full video kind of thing. This one, I don’t love the pink.

Michelle Frechette 00:43:01  No. I don’t either. 

Corey Maass 00:43:02  I, it feels at least this one feels a little more like Bauhaus. Why is that the right Swiss design.

Michelle Frechette 00:43:09  It just looks really blocky though.

Corey Maass 00:43:11  Right, right. Still that same grid.

Corey Maass 00:43:16  And and that one kind of captures the same thing, but a little more interesting with the, the big circles. So we’re getting there.

Michelle Frechette 00:43:25  We are. Absolutely. Now that you called them pills, I can’t stop seeing pills, though.

Corey Maass 00:43:35  RIght. You know, and I think it’s, you know, it’s it’s like I ran into this. I did a I did a a quick landing page design for a client last week. It’s the call you always want to get Friday morning. Hey, hey. How do you feel about, working. Working over the weekend? Can we do a landing page? And I said no I, we actually had plans all weekend but I’m like but I could, I could have this done by end of day Monday because it all came down to they were presenting to investors on Tuesday. So you know nothing like cutting it tight or making it a tight deadline. But, they we had the copy, we had the, we had a site that we liked and so’s let’s emulate, let’s be inspired by this other site.

Corey Maass 00:44:23  But we had to create these little visual, you know, it’s too easy to just create a, a bootstrap, you know, image, text, image, text block, row, row, row. You need some little graphic elements to like, capture, you know, and so went through the same thing, and thankfully their logo had something that I could just sort of sprinkle throughout the page. And so again, it’s these little. So here I, I think he created these pills. And then he’s like, you know let these be I view them as placeholder. Right. Like they can be updated or till changed. I don’t love that. It’s like years ago I worked at a startup and we finally had to normalize, like, because it was funny. I think we would pat the top of our head. But it was it was meant to indicate not this, but something like this. So because you, you know, you suggest a bad idea and people jump on the bad idea and you’re like, I didn’t mean that literally.

Corey Maass 00:45:22  I’m just trying to throw things out there. So it was the like, yeah, you know, not this, but something like this. So don’t don’t just shit on my idea contribute to it.

Michelle Frechette 00:45:31  Yeah. You know and there’s always the. Yes and as well. Right. Like that whole thank you same idea. 

Corey Maass 00:45:36  Yeah.The the improv Improv was the number one rule of improv.

Michelle Frechette 00:45:41  Yes and.

Corey Maass 00:45:43  Yes and so contribute. Don’t just shoot it down.

Michelle Frechette 00:45:46  Right, exactly.

Corey Maass 00:45:48  Well, yeah. So my hope is I do see this immediate stress. Right. But my my hope is, a design settled on enough of a design to start implementing in the next couple of weeks, ideally around because I can. I am I am good at what I do, and so if I’m given a design I can implement it very quickly, probably within a day or two. And it will. And then there will be that long tail of updating everything on the site to match. 

Michelle Frechette 00:46:23  Right. But we’re most concerned with the home page and the pricing page.

Corey Maass 00:46:25  Exactly. So if we update those and everything else kind of falls in line, you know, within the next day or two, I think we’re in good shape. But trying to make all this, you know, push the new copy and ideally push a new design. For black for the beginning of our Black Friday sale, which we are starting a week before Thanksgiving. 

Michelle Frechette: Yes. 

Corey Maass: Whatever that date is, I don’t remember.

Michelle Frechette 00:46:47  I don’t remember off the top of my head.

Corey Maass 00:46:49  So for the, the, the six people listening who have not bought because the rest of you are wonderful, amazing people who have all bought the plugin. Don’t buy. Wait till Black Friday.

Michelle Frechette 00:47:02  Wait till Black Friday. 

Corey Maass: This is always the irony or the contradiction of doing this kind of thing announcing a sale, because then people won’t buy. But that’s fine. We’d rather it was in your hands, in two weeks than not at all.

Michelle Frechette 00:47:15  Exactly. Oh goodness gracious, that’s a lot.

Michelle Frechette 00:47:19  We talked about a lot of stuff today, so.

Corey Maass: We’re not done. 

Michelle Frechette: We’re not done. Okay, I just made notes. But for later.

Corey Maass 00:47:27  What are we doing?

Michelle Frechette 00:47:28  No, that was the. Those are the four things you put up there. I didn’t have anything to add this week. I’ve had a lot going on in the last few weeks, so I’m feeling like I’m getting my groove back, which is good. 

Corey Maass 00:47:38  Yeah. Well let me, let me share. So I think this was an interesting experience. Yeah. so the first thing I did here since we, in the spirit of transparency.

Michelle Frechette 00:47:48  Yes, I we sharing your screen again?

Corey Maass 00:47:51  I will in just a moment, once I find the thing. Whatever. You can just share, present, share screen, that which has nothing on it. There we go. 

Michelle Frechette 00:48:11  Ta da da. Go vote. Votar.

Corey Maass 00:48:16  So how do I go? Let me go find this elsewhere, and then I’ll paste in the URL. We are all about people’s privacy.

Corey Maass 00:48:28  As Corey logs in and shows lists of customers and the usual.

Michelle Frechette 00:48:35  Yeah. Me too. I’ll wait.

Corey Maass 00:48:38  Right. Exactly.

Michelle Frechette 00:48:39  Get to where you want to be.

Corey Maass 00:48:42  Oh, and I’m signing the wrong freaking website anyway. Charming.

Michelle Frechette 00:48:47  I’ll throw some banner up while you do that.

Corey Maass 00:48:49  We are the consummate professionals. We only do the right thing.

Michelle Frechette 00:48:55  Sometimes we fly by the seat of our pants. If you are interested to learn more about OMGIMG go to OMGIMG.co for more information. And we haven’t talked about it in a in this show at all. But if you’re interested in learning more about our Co-marketing project that we’re working on, which is the Independent WordPress Product Alliance. Yes, I said it right. And Independent Product Alliance WordPress. Go to IPAWP.com and you can learn more about that. We are in the process of figuring out how to assign co-marketing opportunities between us also. If you want to. Oops. What did I do? Oh, I did nothing, I did nothing.  It was that it wasn’t me.

Corey Maass 00:49:37  Sorry to everybody who got spammed over the weekend. We were building the new thing.

Michelle Frechette 00:49:42  Oh we were yes. I was like, what is

Corey Maass 00:49:46  So somewhere I, I grabbed again, I grabbed a couple of frameworks for like essentially here’s, you know, you never want to start with a blank slate. So, you know, googling frameworks for marketing page content. Found a couple that I really liked inspiration for sections, you know, just block by block. So then, worked with Claud my AI of choice to flush out, trying to remember. Where.

Corey Maass 00:50:18  Which one I started with. But to copy from our site to copy from other sites, that do similar things. Not nothing really does what we do, which is weird, but like, you know, talking about social images, talking about optimization for WordPress. And so I’m scrolling way back up here in AI. So I said, scan the content below and come up with ten. So I started with like H1 headlines.

Corey Maass 00:50:49  And I also pulled in copy from the talk that I gave and from a bunch of other pitches that we’ve done and short descriptions that I have and and all that kind of stuff. So threw that into  AI was like, help me work through a headline that kind of starts to encapsulate what we’re talking about. Great. Use that to, you know, help me come up with a paragraph that talks about, as seen on. That’s easy. And then one of the things that, was that the framework that I was using talked about is like mention the problem. And I’ve actually seen since seen another thing that says, like, I don’t remember three out of four. You know, 75% of your copy generally should actually be talking about the problem. Oh, Chris Lema had a really good video. Talking about, what what was it, the his bread maker talk. You can probably Google it and find it that way. I’m not sure why it was a bread maker. But anyway, it was a neat little talk that illustrated the point. Well, of, like, you need to talk about the problem a lot, and I think we don’t. I have not been talking about the problem nearly enough.

Michelle Frechette 00:51:56  Yeah. What problem are we solving for?

Corey Maass 00:51:59  And so, you know, creating great images. And then also I think we’ll flush this out more of like the social image. And I think we’re calling it social image and not open graph anymore. 

Michelle Frechette 00:52:11  Right, right, right. That’s that makes sense. So solving the image roulette.

Corey Maass 00:52:16  Right. Yeah. And I we definitely want to work that in. We haven’t yet. but so defining the problems talking about how we are the solution. I also used AI to like. Okay, so who are the actual like we’ve, we’ve talked about this and talked about this, but now I’ve actually like I said, okay, so given all this, this copy, like here are all of the features, which of the features are most relevant to each of these customer types. So now I’ve actually created landing pages for each of these customer types.

Corey Maass 00:52:48  And so we’ll link to those. And so again there’s a little more specific where you’re like oh I’m a blogger. Let me go to the blogger page where it talks about OMG for bloggers and try to, you know, be more specific about the actual value. And so I’m, I’m hoping that it’s like in that context, similar to what you said earlier about onboarding videos and stuff is like, you know, creating, copy creating. It’s like I am Michelle, in my context, sitting here trying to do this, what am I doing, you know. Integrations. How it works. So creating a template, generating images, generating images. And again using images here we’ll use screenshots to illustrate that, you know, which features of all of our features might people find, most specific, you know, relevant to them. Testimonials. FAQ, what is open graph. So putting you know, but not emphasizing open graph overall. Is it easy to use? Will it work? Blah blah blah.

Corey Maass 00:53:56  What if I don’t like it? And then just a summary. But, you know, it helps so much. Like I finally was like, okay, I have most of the day, most of my schedule is clear. Like, you know, I’m so I have most of the books behind me, but like, that whole half of that top shelf is all design. Like I come from a I won’t say a design background, but like artist and study design for many years and back in the day first ten years of of any of our career. If you’re of a certain age on the internet, you there was no such thing as just a developer. You or you designed in Photoshop or Fireworks or whatever, and then sliced it up, you know, in Fireworks or whatever, and made websites. And so like, I loved design and that’s actually how I got into product. And so it’s hard for me to start designing, just start a new homepage without what I want to do is make a pretty design and then fill in the blanks with words I don’t.

Corey Maass 00:54:52  But what matters is the words and then the design that they fit into. And so I was like, okay, so let me just block, block, block, and, and running this by you and running this by Cory and running this through AI in multiple different contexts. It’s just interesting because I hadn’t really like done that. I’ve done this exercise many times, but like, I don’t think I’ve done it in the last year or so where I’ve really embraced AI

Speaker 5 00:55:25  

Michelle Frechette 00:55:26  Yeah.I keep forgetting to embrace AI if I’m being honest. So I need to lean into it as a tool more often. So I’m glad that people keep saying it to me so that I maybe will actually think to use it. I write, so if you’re a writer, you tend not to go and do use it for things because you like your style, you like the way you write. But it’s more than that. It doesn’t just have to write for you. It can be a tool that you can use to inform. And that’s what I need to do more of.

Corey Maass 00:55:51  Yeah, yeah. Like I, I, I’m using it more and more like we’ve from my talk I generated a drip, drip campaign that I also want to put on as a lead magnet. But I went through and rewrote a ton of it, but at least the words were on the page. You know.

Michelle Frechette 00:56:09  Something to jump from.

Corey Maass 00:56:10  And the content was there, and it was outlined in a logical way. And so I didn’t have to be like, wait, does this come before this or whatever? I could just be like, insert dad joke, insert dad joke, insert dad joke, insert tired dad joke and then hit publish. But yeah, I mean that’s and it’s I think we’re all figuring that out. Like. Yeah, for sure. It’s now writing some code for me. I actually have a plugin waiting in the wings, but I haven’tput it in the plugin directory. But this plugin kind of as a, as an exercise for the first time, I was like, I’m not writing code for this plugin.

Corey Maass 00:56:49  We’re going to work together, Claude and I, and we’re going to generate a whole plugin. And it’s a simple plugin, but it it works written by AI start to finish.

Michelle Frechette 00:56:57  Yeah, that’s pretty cool.

Corey Maass 00:56:59  And then and then. Yeah. Trying to, you know, copy. It’s to me it’s thinking of it more and more because like I’ve, I’ve often worked with junior developers or I’ve mentored with people or I’ve hired developers, but I’m very I’m, I, I’m not a throw it over the fence and get it back as you saw from the designs. Like I give lots of feedback like it’s and I and I emphasized in the brief like this is going to be a process, hopefully a good one. But this is this is not a I ask for design. You give me design, I say thank you. You know, I said you’re going to design. You saw it was just the hero section. Eight different versions. We’ll start from there. We’ll work through it.

Michelle Frechette 00:57:43  RIght. I think I’m making making good headway now that we’re using some outside people to help us inform I like it.

Corey Maass5 00:57:51  Yeah. You know. But but I, I’m trying to think of AI like that where it’s like I’m chatting with AI during the process

Michelle Frechette 00:58:00  Yeah. That’s interesting isn’t it? I I have to be honest and say when, when you had put in that bringing in, how did you put it. Visitor interviews. I thought you meant bringing people onto this podcast with us. And I was just very confused how that was going gonna work.

Corey Maass 00:58:17  Hey, I went on This Week and WP yesterday, and I’m sold. We need random guests to come in.

Michelle Frechette 00:58:24  I mean there’s something to that.

Corey Maass 00:58:26  So when did he. What did it Nathan keep saying? Trundle by.

Michelle Frechette 00:58:30  Yeah. That was so funny. But, Yeah, but even doing, like, some focus groups with people during this time would not be a bad idea to like. I could see Cameron Jones giving us a lot of feedback live, as it were, and then it’s recorded in the process. And so, you know, so that might not be a bad idea in the in an upcoming week too, to have some people just once we get some more things in place, just like in our dev site.

Michelle Frechette 00:58:54  Right. Just say, what do you think of this? What do you think of that? And have some people give us some honest feedback on online while we’re doing this. So Cameron, if you’re still there and you’re interested, hit me up in Alack. Aaron you too. anybody that Marcus we’d love to have you guys give us some feedback. We could do it live during one of these podcasts and have you. 

Corey Maass 00:59:11  If I’m not crying. You’re not being harsh enough.

Michelle Frechette 00:59:16  He cries, I laugh. We’ll do it together. It’s all good anyway. All right, I love this. This is a lot of good stuff to work with, and I really do appreciate all the work you’ve been putting into it. So thank you.

Corey Maass 00:59:26  Word up.

Michelle Frechette 00:59:28  Word up. And we’ll see everybody next week because I promise I will be back. I don’t have I mean I don’t think anybody else in my family is going to die in the next week. So let’s just hope that things stay stay good. And there we go.

Speaker 5 00:59:40 Too soon Michelle too soon.

Michelle Frechette 00:59:42  I know,

Corey Maass 00:59:43  Yeah. I mean, it’s, you know, travel and life gets in the way and all that.

Michelle Frechette 00:59:47  It sure does. It sure does.

Corey Maass 00:59:49  Wishing all of us a calm, gentle next weeks, months, years.

Michelle Frechette 00:59:56  Yes, yes. So it’ll be good. Anyway.

Corey Maass 01:00:02  We have reached one hour and three seconds.

Michelle Frechette 01:00:04  All right, we’re done.

Corey Maas: Professionalism. 

Michelle Frechette:  I’ll see you all next week. Bye!

Corey Maass 01:00:07 Dum ba dum ba ba.

Michelle Frechette 5 01:00:10  Our exit music

Corey Maass 01:00:10  Credits rolling by.