Envato has announced a change in support terms for ThemeForest and CodeCanyon, which creates a requirement for authors to provide six months of support, and offers buyers “support packs” for renewing support.
Support has not historically been required, but nearly every author notes that support is essentially required for sales purposes. From the Envato market blog:
Our most successful Authors talk about the support they provide being a key part of their success, and most of our authors advertise that they provide support and have done so for some time. However support has not been an intrinsic part of the system and site mechanics.
The new terms are a bit nuanced and will be a bit more complicated for authors that don’t currently offer support. There are also a number of questions left to answer, which Collis Ta’eed — Envato’s CEO — notes in the post.
- Support will be limited to 6 months
- Additional support can be purchased in “support packs”, though I’m not sure how that will be structured
- Support packs will be 70% author revenue, and 30% fee to Envato (something authors seem slightly unhappy about so far, based on what I’ve seen)
- New rules will be put into effect December 1st
- Updates will remain part of the initial purchase
Envato hasn’t decided yet how long support packs will last, nor how much they will cost. They are also working out details for support promises, such as how long customers should expect for response times. The announcement post also addresses the very legitimate concern for the definition of support. They clearly state it will be a strict definition to prevent authors from having to provide unreasonable support.
Collis also did not note whether initial item prices will increase to account for the added support requirement. Considering so many authors provide it under the current model, they may not raise prices at all; though it’d be a great time to do it.
Collis also notes that unlimited plans are potentially unsustainable, which is quite a statement for a marketplace that has limited authors to that model for years:
We’re capping support at 6 months because the ‘lifetime’ support that authors sometime promise is often not economically sustainable and ultimately leads to more bad buyer experiences than good. For most buyers, the first few months represents the time when most help is needed. After six months,that ongoing support really is a premium request to the author and should be treated as such. There’s already plenty of signs that this is where the industry is headed.
One of my final questions about this move is in regard to how ThemeForest will create support channels. Many ThemeForest and CodeCanyon authors have already created alternative support channels through their own websites, often citing ThemeForest’s system as difficult to manage. I assume authors will still be able to maintain existing systems, but may have to make adjustments for being able to manage support packs and whatnot within their platforms.
I definitely think this is a good change for Envato to make; it’s honestly way past time. However, I understand why it’s taken a while; as the announcement post indicates, there’s a lot to consider and it’s not an easy change. That’s why they are announcing it now and waiting until December to implement the changes.
I’ll be very interested to hear from authors about how they feel about this change. I have a feeling that a minority of buyers would actually buy support packs, though if they do that will be a nice benefit for authors to make more money on support-heavy customers.
The best part about this move is exposing the idea of paid support to a large market whom otherwise might take support for granted.
Hopefully this creates a ripple effect in the global marketplace of WP product shops and authors.
Exactly this.
Very welcome move! Glad to see this happening.
“Collis also did not note whether initial item prices will increase to account for the added support requirement.”
I think he addresses this when he said “Support will be limited to 6 months, with prices remaining the same”, and then further explained in the quote you included.
“One of my final questions about this move is in regard to how ThemeForest will create support channels.”
Looking at the second-last paragraph of Collis’ post:
“We’ve got lots of work to do under the hood as we adjust the T&Cs, item management processes, author settings, item pages, ratings, download pages, purchase confirmation API and much more.”
I’m guessing at least part of this will happen via the API, which authors already use for support integration. Hopefully this might also mean that Envato’s Marketplace API gets a badly needed overhaul too!
I hope authors and buyers both embrace this new model, as Matt highlighted, I think it’s very healthy for the whole ecosystem.
We’ve been an author on Envato for a few years, though we made a conscious decision to start selling our new products through our own domain instead.
There are a few issues with this move by Envato. Why exactly should Envato get 30% for the support package transaction? The main appeal for selling through Envato is the exposure of your product to a large market. I can justify handing over 30 – 50% of the sale for that. But for support? Support is *my* time.
I know some authors have started selling their own support packages. What does this mean for them? As far as I can tell, this just burns them. Not only do they lose 30% of the sale of their support, they also lose control over how much they charge for support.
I completely agree with that. Envato taking a 50/30% share on product sales is understandable. They provide the user base which is a huge part of the job.
However, support is completely different in my opinion. It is time you spend after the product was created. It is time (and money) you loose if the support pricing is not adapted to the level of support you provide.
I am sure Envato is thinking about the greater good of their community, for one part, but this also sounds a lot like making more money on the back of authors. Maybe they want too big a piece of the cake.
As you said, authors handling their own (paid) support could loose total control on this time they spend supporting their buyers. Knowing how demanding some Envato buyers are, it doesn’t seem like the best idea.
I agree that something has to be done to improve product support. Both for authors and for buyers. However, support management and pricing should be entirely up to the authors. What’s going to happen for those selling premium support on their site?
– “Hey, I bought a support package on Envato, help me!”
– “Premium support should be purchased directly with us”,
– “But Envato offered me the premium package blablablablabla…”
As a plugin author, if I was forced to provide support for a price I don’t agree with, and in terms I didn’t choose myself, it would be a very big deal.
Hi All,
Just thought I’d point out that Collis has replied to the feedback given by authors over on the forums.
Eric, Collis has included the 70/30 split in his response.
Overall, I think this is a great move, but of course, there are issues that need to be worked through, which is why it’s been announced well in advance.
I’m glad to see this policy from ThemeForest. It shows they understand one of the major flaws with their marketplace. While six month support is a short time frame, it’s a step in the right direction for the ecosystem. I also understand why they structured the support feature that way.
This is interesting. Thanks for distilling it.
Most indy theme shops include one year of support. ThemeForest has been known as the place where people get “more” bang for their buck. In 2015, ThemeForest buyers having six months of support will generally get less in that very important department.
This should make ThemeForest somewhat less attractive price-wise for buyers, which might be an advantage for indy theme shops:
1. Current pricing becomes more attractive
2. Or, a higher price could be justified
3. Or, a shorter support period could be offered
I think it’s also good for ThemeForest authors. Envato is really moving in the right direction here in regard to sustainability. I wish authors had total control over pricing, though. One author mentioned rigidity making them feel more like an employee than a self-employed person.
Overall this should have a great effect on the theme market. More resources for sellers ought to mean a better product for buyers.
70/30 charge on support packs? Sorry but that’s just wrong! Sure they are a business and they need to support their services, but 70/30? Really hope Creative Market and Automattic will give them a good competition in the future so they will finally land back on earth…
Hi Daniel,
First a disclaimer: I work for Envato!
I understand where people are coming from on this issue. As a plugin author myself (selling on my site, not CodeCanyon), I don’t think I’d be thrilled with the split on support.
However, I’d be interested to find out what Automattic do on WordPress.com. I checked their Selling Premium Themes on WordPress.com page and it mentions that authors need to provide “Amazing customer support”, so it seems support is mandatory (same as Envato is planning). It doesn’t talk about any recurring subscription model, so it seems it’s a once off fee for lifetime support and upgrades (which is what Envato is trying to move away from). Off course authors on WordPress.com can offset support by charging a higher price to start with (but Automattic takes 50% of the sale, so they are effectively taking 50% of whatever you add to cover support, meaning they take more than the 30% that Envato is going to take).
So unless I’m missing something, the 70/30 split planned for ThemeForest is actually better than what you’d get on WordPress.com.
Note, I’m not trolling and I’m not saying Envato is right, I’m just trying to understand the maths behind it. I’m happy to be corrected if I’m wrong.
Hi Stephen,
The WordPress.com comparison is worthwhile considering, but there are a number of important distinctions.
1. Pricing is controlled by the seller, not WordPress.com. This is a critical point to make, because it means that the seller can set appropriate prices based on the share that WP is taking and the fact that they’re required to provide support. For example, see how The Theme Foundry price their Oxford theme on WP (http://theme.wordpress.com/themes/oxford/) vs self-hosted (https://thethemefoundry.com/wordpress-themes/oxford/) — $125 vs $79.
2. WordPress.com is a very tightly controlled environment. You don’t need to worry about different hosting environments, poorly coded plugins wreaking havoc on the site, basic issues gone wrong during installation, etc. The questions seem to be much simpler and/or easier to resolve. I haven’t sold on WordPress.com but I found Philip Arthur Moore’s interview on Apply Filters really informative about this (http://applyfilters.fm/podcast/episode-21/).
Cheers,
Eric
Sorry Stephen, it’s probably me who’s trolling, but you know I <3 haters…
Anyways, the reason why I find the 70/30 rule upsetting is the lack of support Envato gives to their authors. Everytime I have to work with clients who purchased themes at Themeforest and I find a bug I have to sign up for a new ticket system as every author is required to implement support by himself. Sure there are the comments provided by Envato, but that's all. More than that, when the client bought the Theme, getting support as a third person is even more of a pain. Thus, I am not sure how Envato would justify this 30% support rule, when they don't do nothing to improve the current situation. Tho, I believe Envato is probably working on something there.
The other reason I pick on Envato is the current state of Theme quality. It's been discussed a million times and i don't want to repeat it, but with its monopoly position, Envato is pushing authors into creating the most feature overladen themes. It is probably also the customers fault and I feel things are gonna be much more usable again in 2014/15, tho 2013 sure was a mess…
Bit of a late reply here, but thought I would leave a note for anyone curious about the setup on WordPress.com. I sold on ThemeForest for several years before moving to Array and WordPress.com.
While the support on WordPress.com is technically open ended (and I’ve heard this may change), there are a few important differences to keep in mind. WordPress.com is a hosted platform, and so right off the bat you are dealing with a controlled and closely monitored environment, which cuts down support significantly across the board. Once you remove the variables such as plugins and non-standard functionality, WordPress becomes much harder to break and support becomes more predictable. Themes released via WordPress.com also go through an intense review process, further reducing the amount of support you will receive. You end up supporting the theme, and only the theme, which is how it should be. As Stephen mentioned, the ability to set your own prices on WordPress.com allows you to offset these support costs and the controlled environment keeps the support bandwidth in check.
On ThemeForest, you have an entirely different situation. Support questions come in from every angle imaginable, and some you can’t even fathom. Some users have super old versions of WordPress, some have a particular server setup, etc. Many users also have the customization mentality, which opens the door for even more variables. In my experience with ThemeForest customers, you’re really providing a different kind of support, surely one that is more time consuming and technically more difficult. You can see why users are frustrated that Envato wants another cut of their earnings considering the time and effort it takes to provide quality support.
The 70/30 split versus 50/50 split looks good on paper, but the reality is that you’re doing much more work for ThemeForest customers than you would on WordPress.com.
I’ve been thinking about this news for some time now, and there is a lot I don’t like about it. It was too long for a comment so I wrote an article about it: http://themeavenue.net/mandatory-support-envato-bad-idea/
Hi Julien,
Good points in your article! Tho, in the first paragraph I find one thingespecially irritating. The reason why customers think support is free, for a lifetime is because it is not stated otherwise. Everyone who has a new product wants to sell it, so they make as many promises as possible and adjust later, when they notice they can’t handle it. From an author and buyer point of view I believe that there should be support if it is a paid product and that should be stated. If it comes with no support, it should be free! Yes, free like WordPress itself.
All the other points hit the nail on the head from an authors perspective, tho the problem lies again with Envato. Ultimately the buyer buys at Envato and thus there name is on the line too. If support takes longer than 72 hours they customer might give the author 1 star, but sure enough he might also never buy from Themeforest again. So, this goes along with my 70/30 criticism. If they take a share out of it, shouldn’t this then cope for the potential loss of loosing clients? Clearly a thing only a Monopoly can do and cash in on both ends…
The change is for the better when it comes to the customers. For the developers, support is more time consuming than developing a theme. So the 30% cut to Envato is in my opinion too much.
Then i also would like to see that Envato ditched the current license models (on WordPress themes) and only offer GPL. You can use GPL now, but most themes at TF does not.
Also, stop the plugin space madness found in many (most of them) themes at TF. I know Envato is going in that direction somewhat, but slow (of course i understand that Envato need to take it slow, and one step at a time).